I would suggest adding BUTTERFLY with Pia Zidora and Stacey Keach. It confronts incest as LOLITA confronts pedophilia. Don't be mislead by it's casting or disregard it because it is uncomfortable to watch. It is a quietly good movie.
I don't want to change your mind. I enjoy discussions not on a W/L basis just as enjoyment and expansion of my own thinking process and learning from others. That said- I guess I forgot that what makes my preference is not what makes an others. I love animation for the drawing and the tremendous respect I have for the animators. I find myself watching the pictures which in my case are always secondary to the plot, silly of me I guess, but so be it. One has to suspend a certain level of disbelief to even watch animation...trees don't talk...cats don't sing...and so on.
I'm going to digress for a moment and agree with your high ranking of Toy Story for its quality and because its plot is good (though nothing new). In a way the plot is more believable-- maybe toys are alive when we're not there? After all, we'd never know. Who among us doesn't have a childhood memory or two of wishing it were that way, or maybe even suspecting it was?
I can't honestly defend Snow White on any grounds but artistic and historic and am not interested in trying :) I am just tired of hearing people trash "old" Disney because they have non-liberated heroines and that watching Snow White may somehow permanently damage their child! Maybe old Walt was a mysogenist, maybe he wasn't. Who knows and who cares- enjoy what you can and leave the rest. The best advice we can give our children (sons and daughters) is not to believe something just because they see it- question, QUESTION, QUESTION. I'm with you all the way, to just sit and watch I'd choose B and B over SW (and do) any day.
I guess it comes back to how I watch animation and why. *I* watch the pictures, the plot just happens. The best animation today is coming out of Japan because of it's consistent visual quality and the plots do not dissapoint/detract. One of my many complaints against Disney is the way they can put beautifully drawn characters beside flat sketches (contrast Mulan with the big Hun...what was his name- I'm too lazy to check, sorry). I am a novice when it comes to Anime, but Ghost in the Machine was hypnotic and confusing enough to rewatch. The best childrens animation I've seen in a long time is My Neighbor Totoro and Kiki's Delivery Service.
I should probably stop here and go make some animation lists!
Ah- animation- a favorite of mine (and not *only* out of neccesity). Off the top of my head, what about, Bambi, Cinderella, Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp, Black Cauldron, Alice in Wonderland and Sword in the Stone. (Not in any order and some of those of dubious quality.)
I'm curious to know why the lower three fall below the black line of ill-review. Snow White is where it all began! Please don't tell me you dislike it for its-- horrid, simplistic, poor, victimized, woman saved by dwarves and abandoned by them for prince charming, plot. Just as a book or non animated movie must be judged in its historical context so must animation. People must stop applying their 90's (or new millenium) sensibilities to works made in the first half of the century. The animation is stunning and all hand drawn. (101 Dalmations was the first Disney movie to use that cutting edge technology, the xerox copy!) Imagine seeing Snow White when it was first released, it was probably similar to seeing Star Wars when it was first released-- it was entirely new and different.
Sleeping Beauty is also a period piece. It oozes 1950's, and the theory behind it, animating it like a medieval tapestry, all linear, etc. is pretty good.
Lion King is spotty, but has its redeeming bits of quality animation and Jeremy Irons is awfully good at being bad.
What I do love to catch Disney at is cheating. Have you ever noticed that the nice lady in Aristocrats is Cinderella's evil stepmother with a happy facial expression? I used to be able to name at least 10 of these type "cheats". Hmm, maybe I should immerse myself in Disney and resurface with a great list.
There are no doubt many forms that this could take but two come to my mind immediately. 1: Jim could take suggestions and then pick at his discretion, or randomly, or by numerological analysis, a movie to be watched between a stated time period. The movie and the time frame could then be highlighted on the listolgy home page and anyone who so chooses would watch and then discuss beginning on the specified date. The discussion could be unstructured, with listologites posting opinions or be targeted by Jim to a certain part of the movie: style, content, whatever. 2) Listologites who are interested could "subscribe" stating their intrest publicly and then Jim could pick at his discretion, or randomly, or by reverse alphabetical order, a person to choose a movie and then initiate discussion. As in option 1) the movie and time frame could be outlined on the main listology page. So that's my suggestion in greater detail-- an idea really, meant to be expanded and or implemented if the interest exists.
I am currently reading Here Be Dragons (found this list by searching for it) and cannot tear myself away. You might also enjoy the Camulod series by J. C. Whyte, it takes the legend of Excalibur and Arthur and treats it as historical fiction. Some of it is very clever and much of the history covered along the way is fascinating. The first volume is The Skystone.
Some good additions there. You have confirmed my suspicion that my memory is truly bad :( Thank Rachel for reminding me of "Peggy Sue Got Married" I remember enjoying that and will put it on my list to re-watch soon (gad, another list!) How about Groundhog Day- it is a favorite of mine, and it does have the time element. Time to edit the list, thanks for the suggestions.
If anyone out there knows the title to the Jack the Ripper/Time Machine movie that peaks my interest...would like to watch it.
Not sure if I will add the Back to the Future series- it is time travel and I did enjoy them the first (few) time(s) around but now they belong on the list of movies I've seen too often :)
I like your use of Star Wars as the dividing flim between old and new Sci Fi. And I for one think there's no reason to apologize for Logan's Run- yes it had more than it's share of cheesey bits- but the underlying story...aah- that's why it's a classic.
I agree with Jim, this will be a hard but fun list to make, it has gotten me thinking about my favorites by genre. What about Comedy? (without the romance)
oops, yes, thanks
Event Horizon-- that's my vote! Fun idea, I'll have to think of a worthy nominee.
I would suggest adding BUTTERFLY with Pia Zidora and Stacey Keach. It confronts incest as LOLITA confronts pedophilia. Don't be mislead by it's casting or disregard it because it is uncomfortable to watch. It is a quietly good movie.
g3 is my computer (I love macs, especially this one). Where's dakin?
I don't want to change your mind. I enjoy discussions not on a W/L basis just as enjoyment and expansion of my own thinking process and learning from others. That said- I guess I forgot that what makes my preference is not what makes an others. I love animation for the drawing and the tremendous respect I have for the animators. I find myself watching the pictures which in my case are always secondary to the plot, silly of me I guess, but so be it. One has to suspend a certain level of disbelief to even watch animation...trees don't talk...cats don't sing...and so on.
I'm going to digress for a moment and agree with your high ranking of Toy Story for its quality and because its plot is good (though nothing new). In a way the plot is more believable-- maybe toys are alive when we're not there? After all, we'd never know. Who among us doesn't have a childhood memory or two of wishing it were that way, or maybe even suspecting it was?
I can't honestly defend Snow White on any grounds but artistic and historic and am not interested in trying :) I am just tired of hearing people trash "old" Disney because they have non-liberated heroines and that watching Snow White may somehow permanently damage their child! Maybe old Walt was a mysogenist, maybe he wasn't. Who knows and who cares- enjoy what you can and leave the rest. The best advice we can give our children (sons and daughters) is not to believe something just because they see it- question, QUESTION, QUESTION. I'm with you all the way, to just sit and watch I'd choose B and B over SW (and do) any day.
I guess it comes back to how I watch animation and why. *I* watch the pictures, the plot just happens. The best animation today is coming out of Japan because of it's consistent visual quality and the plots do not dissapoint/detract. One of my many complaints against Disney is the way they can put beautifully drawn characters beside flat sketches (contrast Mulan with the big Hun...what was his name- I'm too lazy to check, sorry). I am a novice when it comes to Anime, but Ghost in the Machine was hypnotic and confusing enough to rewatch. The best childrens animation I've seen in a long time is My Neighbor Totoro and Kiki's Delivery Service.
I should probably stop here and go make some animation lists!
Ah- animation- a favorite of mine (and not *only* out of neccesity). Off the top of my head, what about, Bambi, Cinderella, Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp, Black Cauldron, Alice in Wonderland and Sword in the Stone. (Not in any order and some of those of dubious quality.)
I'm curious to know why the lower three fall below the black line of ill-review. Snow White is where it all began! Please don't tell me you dislike it for its-- horrid, simplistic, poor, victimized, woman saved by dwarves and abandoned by them for prince charming, plot. Just as a book or non animated movie must be judged in its historical context so must animation. People must stop applying their 90's (or new millenium) sensibilities to works made in the first half of the century. The animation is stunning and all hand drawn. (101 Dalmations was the first Disney movie to use that cutting edge technology, the xerox copy!) Imagine seeing Snow White when it was first released, it was probably similar to seeing Star Wars when it was first released-- it was entirely new and different.
Sleeping Beauty is also a period piece. It oozes 1950's, and the theory behind it, animating it like a medieval tapestry, all linear, etc. is pretty good.
Lion King is spotty, but has its redeeming bits of quality animation and Jeremy Irons is awfully good at being bad.
What I do love to catch Disney at is cheating. Have you ever noticed that the nice lady in Aristocrats is Cinderella's evil stepmother with a happy facial expression? I used to be able to name at least 10 of these type "cheats". Hmm, maybe I should immerse myself in Disney and resurface with a great list.
There are no doubt many forms that this could take but two come to my mind immediately. 1: Jim could take suggestions and then pick at his discretion, or randomly, or by numerological analysis, a movie to be watched between a stated time period. The movie and the time frame could then be highlighted on the listolgy home page and anyone who so chooses would watch and then discuss beginning on the specified date. The discussion could be unstructured, with listologites posting opinions or be targeted by Jim to a certain part of the movie: style, content, whatever. 2) Listologites who are interested could "subscribe" stating their intrest publicly and then Jim could pick at his discretion, or randomly, or by reverse alphabetical order, a person to choose a movie and then initiate discussion. As in option 1) the movie and time frame could be outlined on the main listology page. So that's my suggestion in greater detail-- an idea really, meant to be expanded and or implemented if the interest exists.
Thanks re: Sum & jenhowel and yes Proof is the blind man with camera...and his housekeeper had a camera too...
Me, again- I forgot to state what is pretty obvious, this is in reference to the suggestions for the "Tear Jerker" category.
I don't cry easily and two that got me were, Steel Magnolias and The Joy Luck CLub (this one would be my entry if I was to make a similar list).
I remember Somewhere in Time- and will add it. Will check out the others... Thanks
I am currently reading Here Be Dragons (found this list by searching for it) and cannot tear myself away. You might also enjoy the Camulod series by J. C. Whyte, it takes the legend of Excalibur and Arthur and treats it as historical fiction. Some of it is very clever and much of the history covered along the way is fascinating. The first volume is The Skystone.
Some good additions there. You have confirmed my suspicion that my memory is truly bad :( Thank Rachel for reminding me of "Peggy Sue Got Married" I remember enjoying that and will put it on my list to re-watch soon (gad, another list!) How about Groundhog Day- it is a favorite of mine, and it does have the time element. Time to edit the list, thanks for the suggestions.
If anyone out there knows the title to the Jack the Ripper/Time Machine movie that peaks my interest...would like to watch it.
Not sure if I will add the Back to the Future series- it is time travel and I did enjoy them the first (few) time(s) around but now they belong on the list of movies I've seen too often :)
I like your use of Star Wars as the dividing flim between old and new Sci Fi. And I for one think there's no reason to apologize for Logan's Run- yes it had more than it's share of cheesey bits- but the underlying story...aah- that's why it's a classic.
I agree with Jim, this will be a hard but fun list to make, it has gotten me thinking about my favorites by genre. What about Comedy? (without the romance)
hmmm, I guess you're right- I should move this one over to Sci Fi. It's the memory of the allusions to anicient Egypt that muddled my memory.