Which Song(s) will top Pitchfork's Top 200 Songs of the 60s?
Submitted by G_Riv on Tue, 08/15/2006 - 01:55
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This interesting feature is being unveiled this week. I'm curious what track y'all think will likely be left standing at the end. Some of my own possibilities:
Velvet Underground - Heroin
Kinks - Waterloo Sunset
Bob Dylan - Like A Rolling Stone
Sister Ray
Hopefully this means they're also going to unveil their top albums of the 60s list very soon!
Sister Ray landed somewhere between 100 and 150, though I thought it was a likely candidate as well. And unfortunately, they announced at the beginning of the list that the top albums of the 60s list is unlikely to be forthcoming. Some other ones that occurred to me:
Can - Yoo Doo Right
Van Morrison - (anything from Astral Weeks)
Bob Dylan - Desolation Row
The bent of the list so far seems to include a great number of Motown and other soul singles, so I imagine that these tracks will also be high on the list:
Sam Cooke - A Change Is Gonna Come
Aretha Franklin - Respect
Temptations - My Girl
Ronettes - Be My Baby
etc.
That sucks...where is this list? Where are you getting this info? I don't see it when I go to P-fork.
I guess it's just too much for some people. My other picks for their #1 would be, in order of likelihood:
Like A Rolling Stone
Satisfaction
A Day In The Life
Heroin
Light My Fire
My Generation
Good Vibrations
Blowin in the Wind
If they're including jazz tracks:
Pursuance-Coltrane
Mode D-Charles Mingus
Hmm...I don't know why you can't see the list, the current installation is listed under the features on the pitchfork front page. 60-21 is today.
Here's the list as of today if you can't find it. Only the top 20 remains a mystery:
200 Sunny Afternoon - Kinks
199 Black Is The Color Of My True Love's Hair - Nina Simone
198 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick
197 Solo Dancer - Charles Mingus
196 Time Is On My Side - Irma Thomas
195 Night Train (Live At The Apollo) - James Brown
194 Build Me Up Buttercup - Foundations
193 Jackson - Johnny And June Carter Cash
192 I'm Still In Love With You - Alton Ellis
191 Mercy, Mercy, Mercy - Cannonball Adderly Quintet
190 So Long, Marianne - Leonard Cohen
189 Strychnine - Sonics
188 Debora - Tyrannosaurus Rex
187 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - Walker Brothers
186 Bus Stop - Hollies
185 Get Ready - Temptations
184 Mother Popcorn - James Brown
183 Beyond The Sea - Bobby Darin
182 She's Got You - Patsy Cline
181 Laisse Tomber Les Filles - France Gall
180 Moulty - Barbarians
179 Armee Guineenne - Bembeya Jazz National
178 I've Been Loving You Too Long (To Stop Now) - Otis Redding
177 Egyptian Shumba - Tammys
176 Kick Out The Jams - MC5
175 Don't Come Home A Drinkin' (With Lovin' On Your Mind) - Loretta Lynn
174 Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) - Darlene Love
173 I Ain't Marching Anymore - Phil Ochs
172 Here I Go Again - Archie Bell & The Drells
171 Sweet Caroline - Neil Diamond
170 Tous Les Garcons Et Les Filles - Francoise Hardy
169 Uptight (Everything's Alright) - Stevie Wonder
168 Ghosts - Albert Ayler
167 Different Drum - Stone Poneys
166 Nothing But A Heartache - Flirtations
165 Monk Time - Monks
164 It Was A Very Good Year - Frank Sinatra
163 Caledonia - Cromagnon
162 I Can See For Miles - Who
161 She's Not There - Zombies
160 A Minha Menina - Os Mutantes
159 Astronomy Domine - Pink Floyd
158 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P. P. Arnold
157 Do Right Woman, Do Right Man - Aretha Franklin
156 Fist City - Loretta Lynn
155 Bad Moon Rising - Creedence Clearwater Revival
154 Louie Louie - Kingsmen
153 Stay With Me - Lorraine Ellison
152 Never My Love - Association
151 The Human Abstract - David Axelrod
150 It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding) - Bob Dylan
149 Tighten Up - Archie Bell & The Drells
148 Sister Ray - Velvet Underground
147 Sinnerman - Nina Simone
146 In C - Terry Riley
145 Stand By Your Man - Tammy Wynette
144 Ode To Billie Joe - Bobbie Gentry
143 Big Louise - Scott Walker
142 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procul Harum
141 Baby Love - Supremes
140 Season Of The Witch - Donovan
139 People Get Ready - Impressions
138 Unchained Melody - Righteous Brothers
137 Iko Iko - Dixie Cups
136 Voodoo Child (Slight Return) - Jimi Hendrix
135 Shangri-La - Kinks
134 Surf's Up (Solo Piano Version) - Brian Wilson
133 I'm A Believer - Monkees
132 What A Wonderful World - Louis Armstrong
131 I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better - Byrds
130 My Favorite Things - John Coltrane
129 Everybody's Talkin' - Harry Nilsson
128 For What It's Worth - Buffalo Springfield
127 She Thinks I Still Care - George Jones
126 What Is And What Should Never Be - Led Zeppelin
125 Shhh/Peaceful - Miles Davis
124 Venus In Furs - Velvet Underground
123 I Hear A Symphony - Supremes
122 I Fall To Pieces - Patsy Cline
121 Wichita Lineman - Glen Campbell
120 ? And The Mysterians - 96 Tears
119 Oscillations - Silver Apples
118 I Fought The Law - Bobby Fuller Four
117 Stand By Me - Ben E. King
116 White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane
115 Victoria - Kinks
114 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra
113 Friday On My Mind - Easybeats
112 It's Gonna Rain - Steve Reich
111 I Was Made To Love Her - Stevie Wonder
110 It's The Same Old Song - Four Tops
109 Eight Miles High - Byrds
108 One - Harry Nilsson
107 Visions Of Johanna - Bob Dylan
106 007 (Shanty Town) - Desmond Dekker & The Aces
105 America - Simon & Garfunkel
104 21st Century Schizoid Man - King Crimson
103 Mama Tried - Merle Haggard
102 Everyday People - Sly & The Family Stone
101 See Emily Play - Pink Floyd
100 It's Your Thing - Isley Brothers
99 All Along The Watchtower - Jimi Hendrix
98 Care Of Cell 44 - Zombies
97 Pressure Drop - Maytals
96 Give Him A Great Big Kiss - Shangri-Las
95 Cupid - Sam Cooke
94 Mrs. Robinson - Simon & Garfunkel
93 Yoo Doo Right - Can
92 River Man - Nick Drake
91 Substitute - Who
90 My Boyfriend's Back - Angels
89 1969 - Stooges
88 You Really Got Me - Kinks
87 The Tracks Of My Tears - Miracles
86 Walk Away Renee - Left Banke
85 Crying - Roy Orbison
84 You Can't Always Get What You Want - Rolling Stones
83 Down By The River - Neil Young
82 Suspicious Minds - Elvis Presley
81 Hold On, I'm Comin' - Sam & Dave
80 Subterranean Homesick Blues - Bob Dylan
79 Baby - Gal Costa
78 I Want To Take You Higher - Sly & The Family Stone
77 Heroin - Velvet Underground
76 Doctor Who (Original Theme) - BBC Radiophonic Workshop
75 The Boxer - Simon & Garfunkel
74 Papa's Got A Brand New Bag - James Brown
73 Don't Think Twice, It's All Right - Bob Dylan
72 Sweet Thing - Van Morrison
71 Manic Depression - Jimi Hendrix
70 Crazy - Patsy Cline
69 Misirlou - Dick Dale & The Del-Tones
68 Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Shirelles
67 Cinnamon Girl - Neil Young
66 The Tide Is High - Paragons
65 California Dreamin' - Mamas & The Papas
64 Runaway - Del Shannon
63 The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto
62 Street Fighting Man - Rolling Stones
61 You Keep Me Hangin' On - Supremes
60 Hot Fun In The Summertime - Sly & The Family Stone
59 Sunday Morning - Velvet Underground
58 I Want To Hold Your Hand - Beatles
57 Crimson And Clover - Tommy James & The Shondelles
56 Bonnie And Clyde - Serge Gainsbourg and Brigitte Bardot
55 (Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher And Higher - Jackie Wilson
54 Daydream Believer - Monkees
53 Whole Lotta Love - Led Zeppelin
52 Georgia On My Mind - Ray Charles
51 River Deep Mountain High - Ike & Tina Turner
50 Alone Again Or - Love
49 Some Velvet Morning - Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra
48 Space Oddity - David Bowie
47 Eleanor Rigby - Beatles
46 Making Time - Creation
45 Son Of A Preacher Man - Dusty Springfield
44 Where Did Our Love Go - Supremes
43 Linus And Lucy - Vince Guaraldi Trio
42 The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down - Band
41 Suzanne - Leonard Cohen
40 This Will Be Our Year - Zombies
39 Sympathy For The Devil - Rolling Stones
38 Cissy Strut - Meters
37 The Sound Of Silence - Simon & Garfunkel
36 You're Gonna Miss Me - 13th Foor Elevators
35 Ring Of Fire - Johnny Cash
34 The Kids Are Alright - Who
33 It's A Man's Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown
32 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (Main Theme) - Ennio Morricone
31 These Days - Nico
30 Leader Of The Pack - Shangri-Las
29 Waterloo Sunset - Kinks
28 (Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay - Otis Redding
27 I'm Waiting For The Man - Velvet Underground
26 I Am The Walrus - Beatles
25 Paint It Black - Rolling Stones
24 You Can't Hurry Love - Supremes
23 At Last - Etta James
22 I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Marvin Gaye
21 Good Vibrations - Beach Boys
Many strong top 10 candidates were revealed in 60-21 today, so I think the picture for tomorrow's top 20 has been clarified somewhat. There are a good number of songs which I would consider mortal locks for the top 20:
God Only Knows - Beach Boys
Respect - Aretha Franklin
A Day In The Life - Beatles
My Generation - Who
A Change Is Gonna Come - Sam Cooke
Be My Baby - Ronettes
Like A Rolling Stone - Bob Dylan
The Weight - The Band
My picks for the rest would be from this list:
Wouldn't It Be Nice - Beach Boys
Acknowledgement - John Coltrane (failing that, some other track from A Love Supreme)
In A Silent Way/It's About That Time - Miles Davis (although there are many possible tracks from his 60s ouevre, I'd be shocked if he didn't have a second entry)
Fortunate Son - Creedence Clearwater Revival
Penny Lane - Beatles (although there are at least a half-dozen other possibilities for the fifth Beatles track, that being the maximum number of songs per artist on the list)
I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown
My Girl - Temptations
Jumpin' Jack Flash - Rolling Stones
Gimme Shelter - Rolling Stones
Happy Together - Turtles
(You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman - Aretha Franklin
I Can't Explain - The Who
Purple Haze - Jimi Hendrix
Crosstown Traffic - Jimi Hendrix
Fire - Jimi Hendrix
I Think We're Alone Now - Tommy James and the Shondelles
Mony Mony - Tommy James and the Shondelles
I Wanna Be Your Dog - Stooges
My Guy - Mary Wells
In The Midnight Hour - Wilson Pickett
Born To Be Wild - Steppenwolf
I Can't Help Myself - Four Tops
I Say A Little Prayer - Aretha Franklin
Sunshine Of Your Love - Cream
This Old Heart Of Mine - Isley Brothers
This is my most conservative estimate, based on what I think they'll pick. It will be interesting to see if I'm close to right.
Some more "out there" guesses of mine would include songs from the following albums:
Astral Weeks ("Sweet Thing" joined already, perhaps "Astral Weeks," "Madame George," or "Cyprus Avenue." This seems increasingly likely the more I think about it.)
White Light/White Heat
Safe As Milk
Thanks for the help, I went back in and did end up finding the list.
They seem to be sticking mostly with singles-type songs, which is okay I guess-most of them are pretty good picks.
I think they'll add Purple Haze and possibly Voodoo Chile (the 16 minute one, and Hendrix's masterpiece).
I also think "One of Us Cannot Be Wrong" by Cohen will probably make it in the top 20.
Good point that there'll probably be 2 Hendrix tracks. Another strong possibility is a song from Led Zeppelin's first album, maybe "Communication Breakdown."
My picks:
#1 has to be Day in the Life (if they don't pick a Beatles song, the list is a sham, in my humble opinion:)
Fifth Beatles song: Happiness is a Warm Gun
Fifth Dylan song: "I Want You"
Fifth Rolling Stones song: "Jumpin' Jack Flash"
Fifth James Brown song: "I Feel Good"
Top 5: "RESPECT" --Aretha Franklin
Songs that won't make it:
"Cherry, Cherry," "Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon" and two other songs by Neil Diamond (he only got one?)
"Cecilia" -- Simon and Garfunkel (they only got four, but their only two top 20 candidates -- The Boxer and Sound of Silence -- are lower)
Well, I just viewed the final 20 and think it's got some expected, but ridiculous picks. I don't see how it's possible that "God Only Knows" is the best song of the 60's. Unfortunately, now it seems that if there were a greatest albums of the 60s list done by Pitchfork, the massively overrated Pet Sounds would top it. Good album, but yikes!
It'd probably be fairly high, I think. Too many different kinds of music fans adore the Beach Boys for it to fall very far. I actually don't think it would get into the top 5 (maybe not even the top 10). Two tracks in the top ten seems impressive, but I feel that it's a very top-heavy album; there's a large dropoff in the quality of the songs after "God Only Knows" and "Wouldn't It Be Nice," both of which I consider to be classics. My top 20 would have included a number of the same songs, so I can't say I'm disappointed with the results. I actually think that The Velvet Underground & Nico would have topped the list. Four of its songs were present, three in the top 100. I'm fairly sure that no other album had more than two entries, and the only examples I can recall are Odessey & Oracle ("Care Of Cell 44" and "This Will Be Our Year") Revolver ("Eleanor Rigby" and "Tomorrow Never Knows") and Pet Sounds.
I still agree that VU & Nico would top their albums of the 60s list, just I've previously posted in my own poll on the topic. I was a little upset when I wrote that, because I just knew some absurd pick would top the list, and there it was!
God Only Knows...the greatest 60's track ever!
I can think of at least a hundred songs/tracks that should've topped it. It's just wierd to me the song is so revered. It doesn't seem possible. As a matter of fact, I think Pet Sounds has entered the pantheon of myth, and the love for it is much more a thing of agreement than real, personalized affection. It has entered the realm of: "you are not allowed to not think this is the greatest album of all time. It just is. No questions can be asked of this point. It is unknown why this is so. But it just is."
Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows Revolver is the greatest album of all time.
I'm currently too tired to tell if you're joking, being serious, or just trying to push my buttons.
Either way, I found your statement amusing.
And pretty much impossible to agree with. There is that moment of ingeniusly organized catastrophe during the "chorus" to Tomorrow Never Knows where for about 5-10 seconds Revolver momentarily ascends to the second best album of 1966, but no...it's just not. I'm too tired to go into why...I hope you were joking.
Yes, I was kidding. I love Revolver, but even I think it is inferior to Blonde on Blonde (which is what I assume you were referring to), so I couldn't possibly think it was the greatest album of all-time.
By the way, AfterHours, I do think that Pet Sounds is canonized undeservedly. However, my respect for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "God Only Knows" (the only songs which I had heard previous to hearing the album in its entirety) survived intact despite my disappointment with the album as a whole. "God Only Knows" in particular I find to be perhaps the best pop song of the decade.
I think that your disgust with it is misplaced because as you seem to attribute its popularity to the blind momentum of years of critical praise rather than a conscious appreciation of its merits by individual listeners. It seems very clear that the fans of "God Only Knows" simply have a different set of musical priorities than you do. Calling them mindless trend-followers is absurd, because no one will listen to a song over and over again forty years after its release without enjoying it for its own sake. There is something inherent in the song which people enjoy, whether you agree with them or not.
Oh, and I also think that Blonde On Blonde blows Revolver away as the best album of 1966.
I pretty much agree with everything you said. I got a tad hostile there, I was just so bored by the list...
God Only Knows is a pretty song.
I apologize if I came across as anything other than being silly. I was very, very tired when I wrote that. I was literally half-asleep.
No worries. As much as I approve of the Pitchfork list in a general way, mine would be very different. There'd definitely be three songs from Astral Weeks in the top 30 or so. Dylan would have much stronger representation as well.
Yea, I'll eventually get around to posting my greatest songs of all time (after my albums list most likely), and from that you'll easily see why I disagreed so much. There are very few songs from their list that show up in mine. I have a completely different view of what songs are the greatest ever than they do. I was really surprised at how different, and I have a hard time seeing how an above average, very good little pussy cat love song like God Only Knows can rank #1, while a monstrous, towering achievement and astoundingly crafted, profoundly moving monolith of poignant lyrical and structural ingenuity like Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands can miss the list entirely. It seems like they base their tastes on how poppy and easy the song is to like at first, instead of how masterful and powerful and profound the song for is all time. A single song the stature of Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands has more depth and emotional resonance within it than Pet Sounds in its entirety. Same thing with most of the greatest songs of all time. So their basis baffles me. I don't see how an explanation that God Only Knows is the greatest song of that decade could possibly be convincingly mustered. It's not the most powerful. It's not the most beautiful. It's not the most magnificent. It's not the most moving. It's not the most groundbreaking. It's not the most ingenius. It's not the most anything. And it doesn't even rate particularly high in any of those categories, except perhaps beauty. But even it's level of beauty is reserved in comparison to the most "beautiful" masterpieces of the decade, such as Beside You, Cypress Avenue, Madame George, Ballerina or practically anything off Astral Weeks. Compared to Epitaph or In the Court of Crimson King by King Crimson. Compared to Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, hell Mr. Tambourine Man or even A Hard Rains A-Gonna Fall or Don't Think Twice by Dylan. Suzanne and Stranger Song and One of Cannot Be Wrong by Cohen. Anyways, that's just a start, a small part of my little, not-so-big-a-deal beef about the list. There just doesn't seem to be much logic throughout, and at the top it misses completely in my mind.
If God Only Knows isn't even the best at its most significant characteristic, how could it possibly be the best overall song of the decade?
Ah, the agony of the Scaruffist. Honestly, no matter how much you disagree, does it really surprise you that this is Pitchfork's top choice? Does the fact that a music magazine's tastes are dissimilar to that of an eccentric, unconventional critic really surprise you? Really?
I mean, "God Only Knows", while a great song, is far from my favorite 60s song, but I can see why they would pick it. It's not the most anything, but it it powerful, beautiful, magnificent, moving, groundbreaking, and ingenius. Not a whole lot of any characteristic but a little of each. It's a well-rounded song that's extremely easy to like, even if you find it hard to love.
Please don't confuse my intense passion for music for agony.
And yes, I was a little surprised by how pop-oriented the list was, mainly because most Pitchfork lists have leaned towards lesser known or heralded works at least partially.
And your second paragraph is a differently worded repeat of what I said above without the extensive argument I used to forward the basis of my opinions.
If you think we said the same thing, then why did we come up with opposite conclusions? I was saying it's easy to see why they picked "God Only Knows," whereas you described yourself as surprised and baffled. I wouldn't disagree that we said similar things, I was just trying to turn it around to a more understandable light.
My reference to the "agony of the Scaruffist" was not meant so literally, it was just a phrase I found amusing. Though you did seem a bit dismayed in your original post. I guess I would just say that if you are disappointed when mainstream listmakers don't agree with the Scaruffist philosophy, you're going to be disappointed quite often.
I will admit to a merely superficial knowledge of Pitchfork's tastes.
I was referring to the quotes below in particular. They seem to parallel eachother, which is totally fine. It just seemed like your main point was supposed to be an argument towards what I said, when it was actually a reiteration. Mine in bold, yours in italics
It's not the most anything, but it it powerful, beautiful, magnificent, moving, groundbreaking, and ingenius. Not a whole lot of any characteristic but a little of each.
It's not the most powerful. It's not the most beautiful. It's not the most magnificent. It's not the most moving. It's not the most groundbreaking. It's not the most ingenius. It's not the most anything. And it doesn't even rate particularly high in any of those categories, except perhaps beauty.
I strongly believe if there was more time invested in listening to the largely more profound albums found on my lists, lukeprogs list, Scaruffi's list and so forth, that music as a whole would become much greater than the declining state it's in right now. I've only heard one real masterpiece from this decade. There are about a dozen or more from the 90s. A handful from the 80s, and more from the 70s and 60s. To me, there is a decline there and the state of music right now, while there are plenty of very good albums, there are very few truly great ones.
I wish there were more, that's all. And so I am passionate about detailing this to others.
It's not what you say, but how you say it. That may be a lame cop-out, in which case I apologize. If what I said was just a reiteration, though, I'd like to give myself major kudos for restating your words so it sounds like you think "God Only Knows" is a terrific song. Changing your entire argument without saying anything different should earn me a big A+ in rhetoric bastardization.
I'm confused now though. You're talking about how Scaruffism could influence modern-day musicians? I thought we were talking about the Scaruffist perspective on critics' evaluations of music that came out forty years ago. In any case, yes, I do agree that if everyone listened to music you love many times over, more music would sound like the music you love. Nonetheless, there will always be intelligent, discerning people who prefer Beach Boys to Beefheart no matter how many times they listen to Trout Mask Replica.
Yea, I don't ever expect people to like Trout Mask Replica. I just hope and pray that they give it enough chances to discover what it truly has to offer (which is eventually completely different from what is heard at initially).
And I never said once I didn't like God Only Knows. It's a very good song. I just don't think it's nearly the best song of the 60's, so "changing my argument" doesn't hold up. Still, I'd grade you a B. If you end up loving Irrlicht: A+
(:
Well now I am really nit-picking, but your argument was not that "God Only Knows" is a bad song, your argument was that it's hard to see why Pitchfork picked it as the best song of the 60s. My argument was that it's easy to see why Pitchfork picked as the best song of the 60s. But nevermind.
It's all good. I understand.
I think that there are numerical considerations that pretty much doom any list like this one to domination by singles. Vote-splitting becomes too great a factor when classic album tracks come into play. AfterHours, your mention of Astral Weeks is a great example of what I mean; if you had a dozen writers who all agreed beforehand that it was indisputably the greatest album ever, you'd probably find it difficult to get even a third of them to agree on the best track. I find that really mind-blowing albums often have this effect, and the result is that the best-known or most radio-friendly songs ("Sweet Thing" being the standout in this case) appear in a modest position on the list.
On the other hand, I doubt that the great majority of the Pitchfork writers even own a Supremes album, but it's very easy for them to agree on the four or five best Supremes songs and so these all received lots of votes and appeared on the list. Artists who have a few consensus "masterpiece" songs flourish in these kinds of list.
So although I'd have loved to see a top 10 that contained "Madame George," "Sister Ray," "Heroin," and "Desolation Row," I understand that this isn't very likely and react to the results accordingly.
You have some really good points there, and it's quite possible you hit the spot in detailing why their list would have the picks it does. Thanks.