Favorite Movies
Submitted by Marquee on Tue, 06/30/2009 - 11:47
Tags:
- Chronological Order
- La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc The Passion of Joan of Arc (Carl Dreyer, 1927)
- Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (F.W. Murnau, 1927)
- City Lights (Charlie Chaplin, 1931)
- L'Atalante (Jean Vigo, 1934)
- La Règle du jeu The Rules of the Game (Jean Renoir, 1939)
- Zangiku monogatari The Story of the Last Chrysanthemums (Kenji Mizoguchi, 1939)
- Letter from an Unknown Woman (Max Ophuls, 1948)
- Banshun Late Spring (Yasujirō Ozu, 1949)
- The Third Man (Carol Reed, 1949)
- Tōkyō monogatari Tokyo Story (Yasujiro Ozu, 1953)
- Ugetsu monogatari Tales of the Moon and Rain (Kenji Mizoguchi, 1953)
- Sanshō Dayū Sansho the Bailiff (Kenji Mizoguchi, 1954)
- Viaggo in Italia Journey to Italy (Roberto Rossellini, 1954)
- Ordet The Word (Carl Dreyer, 1955)
- Pather Panchali Song of the Little Road (Satyajit Ray, 1955)
- Yokihi Princess Yang Kwei-Fei (Kenji Mizoguchi, 1955)
- Aparajito The Unvanquished (Satyajit Ray, 1956)
- Un condamné à mort s'est échappé A Man Escaped (Robert Bresson, 1956)
- Touch of Evil (Orson Welles, 1958)
- Vertigo (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958)
- Apur Sansar The World of Apu (Satyajit Ray, 1959)
- Hiroshima Mon Amour Hiroshima, My Love (Alain Resnais, 1959)
- Pickpocket (Robert Bresson, 1959)
- L'Eclisse Eclipse (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1961)
- La Jetée The Pier (Chris Marker, 1962)
- 8½ (Frederico Fellini, 1963)
- Suna no onna Woman in the Dunes (Hiroshi Teshigahara, 1964)
- Chimes at Midnight (Orson Welles, 1965)
- Andrei Rublev (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1966)
- Au hasard Balthazar (Robert Bresson, 1966)
- La battaglia di Algeri The Battle of the Algiers (Gillo Potecorvo, 1966)
- Sult Hunger (Henning Carlsen, 1966)
- Le Samouraï The Samurai (Jean-Pierre Melville, 1967)
- Play Time (Jacques Tati, 1967)
- Faces (John Cassavetes, 1968)
- Solaris (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1971)
- Le charme discret de la bourgeoisie The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie (Luis Buñuel, 1972)
- The Godfather (Francis Ford Coppola, 1972)
- El espíritu de la colmena The Spirit of the Beehive (Victor Erice, 1973)
- A Woman Under the Influence (John Cassavetes, 1974)
- Edvard Munch (Peter Watkins, 1974)
- Fontane Effi Briest (Rainer Werner Fassbinder, 1974)
- The Godfather Part II (Francis Ford Coppola, 1974)
- Zerkalo Mirror (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1974)
- Nashville (Robert Altman, 1975)
- Mikey and Nicky (Elaine May, 1976)
- Abigail's Party (Mike Leigh, 1977)
- Eraserhead (David Lynch, 1977)
- The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (John Cassavetes, 1976)
- The Killer of Sheep (Charles Burnett, 1977)
- Stalker (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1979)
- Possession (Andrzej Żuławski, 1981)
- Nostalghia (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1983)
- Sans Soleil Sunless (Chris Marker, 1983)
- Videodrome (David Cronenberg, 1983)
- Paris, Texas (Wim Wenders, 1984)
- Offret The Sacrifice (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1986)
- Khane-ye doust kodjast? Where is the Friend's Home? (Abbas Kiarostami, 1987)
- Sous le soleil de Satan Under the Sun of Satan (Maurice Pialat, 1987)
- Dead Man (Jim Jarmusch, 1995)
- Ta'm-e gīlās Taste of Cherry (Abbas Kiarostami, 1997)
- Bād mā rā khāhad bord The Wind Will Carry Us (Abbas Kiarostami, 1999)
- Beau travail Beautiful Work (Claire Denis, 1999)
- Werckmeister harmóniák Werckmeister Harmonies (Béla Tarr, 2000)
- Hei yan quan What Time Is It There? (Tsai Ming-liang, 2001)
- Ararat (Atom Egoyan, 2002)
- Trilogia I: To Livadi pou dakryzei The Weeping Meadow (Theo Angelopoulos, 2004)
- Inland Empire (David Lynch, 2006)








Great, great list. Makes me want to watch Pather Panchali again--it's been many years...
I guess I should see Sans Soleil, eh? I read about it a little and it seems fascinating.
It's truly transcendent, I would love to see your reaction to it. It's suis generis, the closest thing to it is probably Marker's own La Jetee, but even that doesn't touch its brilliance. Intellectual and dense, every viewing seems to offer up something new. It's an explicitly fictionalized documentary (which I prefer, the compulsion to document is a scientific, not artistic one) that presents Marker's thoughts on culture, memory, transience, history, reality, illusion and filmmaking, amongst others. I can think of very few films that are pulled off as skillfully as Sans Soleil, it's breathtaking... some of those images haunt me to this day.
I'm rambling, if/when you get around to it please share your thoughts.
Sounds amazing. I hope to enjoy it as much as you have. I'll get back to you on what I think. Thanks.
btw, your list and comments show up all mushed together for some reason. Don't know if it's my computer or some other glitch. It doesn't happen on anyone elses so I'm assuming it's coming from your end.
Is Chimes of Midnight any good? It's listed #1 on your director list (a to be exact), yet here you have it in third tier. By the way, Welles is coming around for me in a big way. I think his range as an artist is just about as vast as anyone. Magnificent Ambersons convinced me of that and I cannot believe he made that film after Citizen Kane.
b), to be precise. I adore it, it's probably his most beautiful work (maybe The Magnificent Ambersons could give it a run for its money). It's a different kind of Welles film, his compositions remain as perfect as ever, yet it's him at his most technically restrained. There's a meditative feel to it that shows a deep humane side to Welles that we caught only glimmers of in his other films. There's a battle scene in it that's truly remarkable, constructed perhaps even more finely than Kurosawa's in Seven Samurai. Although I love Citizen Kane a lot (it's worth noting that c-f is basically arbitrary) I'd definitely say that Chimes is the richer piece of the two, if only by a little. The way it mixes pathos and slapstick as well as playfulness and tragedy is just about unparalleled.
It probably does deserve to move up a tier, after seeing Citizen Kane a couple weeks I've been puzzling over Welles films and how they belong on the list. It's always tempting to get blown away by a movie (even if it's the nth time seeing it) and immediately placing it somewhere. I haven't quite figured it out yet so the list doesn't really reflect my thoughts as far as that goes.
Do you like Memento?
I quite liked it, cerebral stuff. I wouldn't say it's a favorite, but it's a great film nonetheless. I love the concept of it all, and was really impressed with how fine its execution was. It does amaze me, though, to think how how Nolan can make perfectly good films like Memento and The Prestige... as well as something like the Batman franchise.
Your thoughts?
I think it had a brilliant script, other than that I can't see anything masterful about it. It's a very Hitchcockian film in my mind, though the filmmaking is far more modest (or dare I say crude?). The performances were also a little on the mediocre side (the lead especially) and aside from the story, I don't remember anything about it being particularly interesting or amazing. A good film, but the best film of the decade? Or of all time even?? Of all the films that get praised by everybody, that one sticks out the most to me. As for the fact that Nolan can make a film like Memento, and then something like Batman...yeah, that is pretty weird and definately fascinating.
Your comment inspired me to rewatch it, actually, and it's definitely fallen in my regard. Of course it didn't help that I also finally got around to seeing Mouchette (highly recommended, harrowing), but what can you do.
I agree with your conclusion. Its script is very intelligently designed, but it has little staying power. Nolan definitely doesn't come up in the top handful of directors of the decade, and there have been plenty of better films than Memento recently made. Given this is Listology, I feel the following is only appropriate. We have:
Ming-liang Tsai, Jia Zhang-ke, Claire Denis, Apichatong Weerasthakul, Michael Haneke, David Lynch, Lars Von Trier, Bela Tarr, Gus Van Sant, The Coen Bros, Alejandro Inarritum Guillermo del Toro, Alfonso Cuaran, Michel Gondry, Kelly Reichardt, Mike Leigh, Steven Soderbergh, Kar-wai Wong, Roy Anderson, Hou Hsiao-Hsien, Gaspar Noem, Aleksander Sokurov and Atom Egoyan, for example, all of whom have made at least one film better than Memento in the past ten years. I do think Memento is a good movie, just not a great one. The unique design of it is probably why it's ranked higher than it should be; well, I know that's probably why I had misjudged it earlier.
Oh yeah, just for clarity; I think the Batman series is garb.
I was reading a little bit of what lukeprog thought of the film when he saw it awhile ago, he mentioned that each scene is 5 minutes long because the guy's memory is only 5 minutes long. I think that's pretty cool. However, I have a feeling this device contributed to the unnaturalistic pacing of the scenes and to the somewhat awkward acting. Perhaps Nolan spent too much time trying to cram everything he wanted to say into 5 minute scenes instead of making those scenes more interesting. who knows...btw I looked around and noticed that everybody loves it pretty much. Must be something great about it.
I haven't seriously looked into the Batman films so I couldn't say. I remember seeing Batman Begins in the theatres when it came out and was impressed with the filmmaking. Mind you this was some years ago before I had scene many films and I was almost certainly stoned at the time. I don't really get why Batman is an interesting character though, or a lot of those comic book guys.
Good man. Care to say why Mirror beats out Nostalghia?
And what on God's green Earth did you like about Fear Eats the Soul by Fassbinder? By the way, glad to see you added more tiers.
Mirror was always incontestably the greatest movie of all time, in my mind, but Nostalghia hit me so hard personally that it temporarily eclipsed my feelings regarding Mirror. The real thing that separates them is the artistry, Mirror represents the peak of not just Tarkovsky's career, but cinema as well. It's the most affecting work ever conceived within the medium, as well as being the most skillful one. It probably has more unforgettable moments than Nostalghia, even something "slight" like the opening scene where you can see the boom mic's shadow is forever imprinted in my mind. It's the most intelligent, emotional film ever made. Unbeatable. Although I still think Nostalghia is a towering work, after I recently rewatched Mirror it seems odd that I ever let it slip down a slot.
I recall you saying that Fassbinder tilts heavily to the left, and you're right, he does so unabashedly; but I think he manages to so thoroughly ground his film in history that it somehow negates this as being a disservice to his film. The premise in itself is somewhat contrived, but the way it's fleshed out is not. Fassbinder's misanthropy flows through every scene, he doesn't idealize any character. He instead thrives on the bitter hypocrisy of human nature, and manages to make it all unfold so naturally. There's no joy to be found, and at the same time you get a sense of an unmistakable love that Fassbinder has for his characters. Visually it's great, Fassbinder frames are prison-like constructs, completely inescapable, representative of the film's social context.
Of course after all this I have to tell you that putting down Fear Eats the Soul was an accident. I had written down "Fassbinder" as a reminder to myself and instinctively put in Ali, instead of Effi Briest, which is the superior of the two. I still think Ali is a very good film, but it's no Effi, which gives mise-en-scene a whole new meaning.
It was a pretty good film, I just didn't know wtf was up with the acting in that one. Ali gave one of the worst performances I've seen in any 'good film'. Also, I thought their relationship in general was very hard to believe, but the way it played out with how the neighbours reacted was (oh wait, you said the exact thing haha). Best part of it was the way he filmed it, which was very cool. I never actually saw the ending (spoiler warning***). I watched up to the part where Ali leaves to go 'eat couscous' and wasn't sure what happened after that. She was sort of starting to order him around, so I wonder if she didn't turn into a complete tyrant in the end (which would have been funny and brilliant). Now as for the comment on his film style reflecting the social context, that actually would explain why some of the shots were so...WEIRD. For example, one of the first shots in the bar when the old woman walks in unannounced, the characters were just like...STANDING there. Just staring at her. lol. There were a few shots like that, it was quite weird in general. But that is pretty interesting. thanks for sharing : )
Just picked up Sans Soleil, and will most likely watch it within the next few days. Thanks for introducing me to it, I'll see what I think and let you know.
What is your favorite Brakhage? I love Cat's Cradle.
It's hard to say. Mothlight? The Dante Quartet? Arabic Series? The Text of Light?
I really struggle with avant-garde cinema. I like it, it's a offers a completely new way of looking at the world; but I can't think of a single cogent thing to say about it. It's all about form, one that's wholly different from typical cinema, and I'm not nearly educated enough to comment on Brakhage's use of it.
Also worth mentioning: The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes. EFFED UP.
Mothlight is a good one. Black Ice is pretty sweet too if you like his collage films. I think it's awesome how he directly painted or glued things on the celluloid. Yes, the Act of Seeing is pretty wild. Have you seen the childbirth ones too? There is also one where he filmed his dog decomposing in the woods over a year, and sped it up for the film.
This is from my college thesis on Brakhage. His films definitely reward more or less conceptual readings on film technique:
Brakhage's style serves three purposes: (a) to de-familiarize the viewer of expected stylistic schemata and (b) through this de-familiarization, encourage the viewer to perceive such taken-for-granted phenomena as light, movement, color, and shadow in a novel way, and finally, (c) by having the viewer perceive such phenomena differently, help them craft a new visual language whose symbols are the stylistic schemata of Brakhage’s films. Resting upon these goals, Brakhage’s films derive meaning from their ability to “make us see” unexpected, unfamiliar, and even unnamable forms. We realize, in sum, that the meaning is not to be found on a traditional narrative level but on a more formalistic, and quite frankly, perceptual level for which the medium of film is well suited. In this way, Brakhage seems to invent a new visual language, one that can be successfully learned with proper understanding of the stylistic schemata involved.
That's actually a really nice summation, I couldn't have put it better myself. Your last sentence in particular is true, when I first encountered Brakhage I didn't understand what was going on. But it's just a matter of educating yourself in his use of form via watching and rewatching; eventually one should come to an understanding of what he's doing and starting seeing in a completely new way.
I do like Black Light, and Window Water Baby Moving was, well, I won't be forgetting them anytime soon. I don't think I've seen the decomposition one, do you have a title for it?
It definitely takes practice to get to understand them, and I'll admit I haven't put much time into Brakhage since college, but he is a true original.
The dog one is called Sirius Remembered
Do you think Le Samourai's isolation is a result of women? If you ask me, he has some serious psycho-sexual problems, exaserbated by his encounter with the incredibly hot Black chick. I bet his whole lifestyle revolves around avoiding women. Thoughts? Does this not speak volumes of the tradition of lone warriors? He kills other men in order to subconsciously eliminate competition, in order the quell the jealousy seething within. Although, the fact that he had a relationship with a really beautiful women throws doubt on that theory. Maybe she represents his Mother.
Is it safe to assume that a lot of your problems in life stem from women? I've honestly never looked at the film with his mother in mind. For once your ideas don't seem too far fetched, I'll keep them in mind whenever I see it next. And you got it half right, it's like Bresson or Ozu made a crime flick, not Tati.
Watch Army of Shadows. All filmmakers should study Melville, a high level of craftsmanship and passion that more than compensates for his consistently low budgets.
"Is it safe to assume that a lot of your problems in life stem from women?"
Yes
Not quite sure I see the Ozu influence (though Ozu and Bresson are very similar if you ask me). The scenes in the club and the overall dense photography reminded me of Playtime. Maybe I'm offbase. I'll check out Army of Shadows.
How about Wings of Desire by Wenders?
Two issues, and one is a fault of my own completely. The minor complaint is that the dialog is almost as loaded as the rich images are, it's too overwhelming to both read and watch at the same time. My inability to speak German is undoubtedly a handicap. Secondly, I think it unravels with the trapeze artist storyline, that section never really sat well with me. I understand what he was driving at, but he stretched far beyond his ability.
I still think it's a great achievement, just a flawed one. It's certainly earned its acclaim. I still need to see the sequel, have you? If so, is it worthwhile? I've heard mixed things.
Didn't even know there was a sequel actually. Guess I've been too enthralled by the original to look into it ( :
I thought it would be a perfect fit with your list because of how Tarkovsk-ian it is. I always liked her as a trapeze artist because she is so angelic and adds poignancy and believablity to how enthralled he is with her.
Just watched Citizen Kane this morning for the first time in a while. I have to say, it may not be THE best film of all time, but it must be among the very top. I'd say it's better than Touch of Evil. Why? Oh gosh, reasons. Well, it has very few weak parts (maybe it dwells too long on the Susan Alexander failed opera singer saga, but it does show his determination to fight the people and make them see things the way he thinks he should) compared to TOE. TOE (yikes, what a funny acronym) dwells too long on the hotel antics for my taste and there are just some scenes that feel more formalistic as opposed to integral to the narrative. Maybe it's because I feel Citizen Kane still explains America so well, I can't help but let political leanings determine my choices. Only Fellini seems to help me break free of these constraints.
I think Welles simply got better. He established himself as an incredible director with Citizen Kane, but then he just kept improving as an artist. Formally he kept getting stronger, I find films like Falstaff and Touch of Evil to be superior not just visually but rhythmically as well to Citizen Kane. I find the narratives of both Citizen Kane and Touch of Evil to be just fine (I don't think either drag, but I can see where you're coming from), but Welles execution in the latter is far more matured. That opening tracking shot alone beats out Citizen Kane, I'd say. It's so rich and profound, he simply didn't have that sort of grip over cinema when he was starting out. Citizen Kane is a very good film, and I don't take umbrage with those who deem in the greatest ever, I do think he went on to make better work though.
As far as an explanation of America, I tend to roll with The New World.
You make a good point about the rhythm in Touch of Evil, and for what it's worth, I find the themes of that film much more universal. And the crane shot is remarkable in terms of technical prowess and setting up the mood of the film. But there are many sequences in Kane that, while less technically exceptional, both establish mood and advance the story: the very opening, News on the March, the dining table conversations showing the disintegration of his first marriage, the vertical opera shot, Kane in the hall of mirrors, etc. Welles used mise-en-scene so well in Kane it could have been a silent film.
What makes Citizen Kane so distinctly American to me is how an ambitious, seemingly well-intentioned man sells out on his principles, fails to see the futility of his material and power pursuit, until all that's left is the STUFF he owns. I love how the film showed that transition. He started to view everything in terms of property rights. This shows in his emotions and language -- you can't do this to me he tells Susan as she leaves. He's put so much time and effort into her, he deserves a return on his investment. It seems such an American or perhaps simply capitalist tragedy.
But I roll with you on The New World too.
Nice you finally saw it (Possession). I read that Tarkovsky hated it, so you may want to ask forgiveness of your closet shrine tonight.
Interesting, link? Because if so I'll have to swiftly remove it.
FYI: I still resent you for watching it without me.
I read it in this thread. Search for Possession.
Think you might appreciate this fellow.
Yes, I think he might as well. That guy is one of the most pretentious, shallow & foolish people on RYM. He used to be my friend but I deleted him out of disgust.
Mannn that guy has stuff I never even heard of, and good taste as far as I can tell. Thanks, will give it a good look.
cont. discussion, since the old list is gone.
"I'd rather have Tarkovsky's ponderous nature takes than a busy Hitchcock frame, one is infinitely more truthful."
I'm not sure Hitchcock's style makes him untrue, but rather his trite & cliche narratives, and general poor choice of infantile actors (no offense Hitch). Having preference for style is one thing, but equating style with truth is akin to the empty esthete who thinks clothes are a reflection of her inner state.
"Ironically, I think Bergman's "talking heads" work (Scenes From a Marriage) completely blows away the clunky Seventh Seal."
So you like his more theatrical work rather than his more pure films like Persona, Hour of the Wolf, The Virgin Spring etc.? While we're at it let's call Tarkovsky and Antonioni's work "filmed paintings" because while they are filmic expression, they do borrow from those traditions. It's not like film is a complex medium that combines multiple artforms.
Let's stay within the realm of film, or at least art, particularly when I side with Isabel Archer when it comes to clothes. I'm skeptical about getting into another form/content discussion with you, because that's what your remark is rooted in. For me the truth is the style/form/language/expression/etc, whatever you want to call it. So basically I'm saying the truth is in the art, because as I've previously stated form is all there is. Unlike the function of clothes, style isn't there to merely wrap something else up. Hitchcock rarely made adequate engagements with reality. Instead he preferred to skirt around its edges, content with cultivating technical mastery. This "pitfall" can be chalked up not only to his actor and script choices, but also to his technical perfection which seems to life one out of the real world into a realm where Hitchcock masterfully dictates all emotional responses.
I wasn't making a sweeping remark that I prefer his theatrical work over his cinematic films. In fact, now that I think about it, the color palate and intense close-ups firmly moor the film in cinematic territory. The relevance of the rest of your paragraph to what I said is beyond me.
On a side note, why do you seek out my opinion when you've so often deemed it to be shallow and unoriginal?
I think someone's got a crush~!
I'm wondering if this negates the mythological power of film. Movies are after all, a story-telling medium complete with messages, morals, and ideas in general. This naturally conflicts with the more sensual elements, namely style, which is removed from "truth" since truth is an abstract intellectual concept. How can a style be more truthful if it doesn't communicate ideas, but rather feeling, atmosphere, and a general rhythm/vibe.
As for Hitchcock, you've described precisely what makes him a great director and used this to disqualify him. This same logic would diminish not just the Hitchcock's and Kubrick's of the world, but also the Bresson's and Mizoguchi's - all technical perfectionists who were more concered with making great films than "realistic" ones. Realism has never made for good films, as movies are a form of escapism (however noble). Take this quote from Tarkovsky,
"The artist exists because the world is not perfect. Art would be useless if the world were perfect, as man wouldn't look for harmony but would simply live in it."
Or Welles,
"Art is a lie that makes us understand the truth."
As for your next point, while not an expert in theatre I'm not sure how color palettes is a uniquely filmic expression. Surely you could use color on stage. As for the apparent irrelevance, you mentioned Bergman was "mostly content filming theatre". By that token Bresson must be "filmed paintings". But of course this is ridiculous. Anyway who has seen filmed theatre knows it's nothing like a film.
Perhaps my new found amicability has fooled you, but rather than seek your opinion I merely wanted to show how illogical and silly your arguements are. Granted, the fact that I'm engaging with you at all is proof that your words move me. But this is a psychological truth better left unsaid (because of how unsightly it is). These arguements are a lot of fun and stimulating, otherwise I wouldn't participate.
I would say movies are a story-telling medium in the same way that literature is. Which is to say both have the ability to communicate stories, but that's not necessarily the most interesting part about a work. Ideas are brought into existence by the form,by the expression, by the style -- it's not only what you say but how you say it, too. The notion that style is removed from truth is ludicrous, you're setting up a false dichotomy. In any case, I think the truth lies in the experience opposed to just the ideas. The rhythm, the tones, the shifts, the pauses, the suspensions, etc -- all are apart of style, all compose experience, and all are potentially truthful. You're looking for truth in the static (ideas) while I value what flows.
The statement that movies are escapism is ridiculous, am I correct in supposing you say the same thing about all art forms? The work of Bresson, Kiarostami, Tsai, etc do not float freely above reality, but instead they plunge into it. They are all technically refined, but they also have a lot of truthful things to say about life as well. Even the dreamy films of Tarkovsky never manage to unmoor themseIves from reality. The worlds they depict may not be the earth we find around us, but the emotional and intellectual territory they occupy are very real. I find the experience I get from them to be infinitely more truthful than one I get from a Hitchcock movie. In Hitch's films there is rarely the emotional muddlement that I often exist in, it's all very cut and dry where my feelings towards shots and characters are simply dictated. I don't disqualify Hitchcock, I like him quite a bit (granted I have a greater degree of affection for the other filmmakers you mentioned
). However, I think the disengagement with reality to be a very legitimate charge to level against him. The world he expresses often contains little truth as far as I'm concerned. I didn't once mention realism, you're setting up straw men.
I prefer Wallace Stevens' "Speech is not dirty silence/Clarified. It is silence made still dirtier". Unsure how this any of the quotes relate to my post though.
The color palette has a lot to do with Nykvist's masterful work, I'm not sure how this is disputable. There's also much to be said about his wonderful lighting.
I had a couple snarky things to say but I'll leave it alone.
You simply do not understand what the word truth means. One cannot have a "truthful" style. The best defense lawyers could tell you this, not to mention the great (con) artists. Hitler was great at giving speeches...about killing Jews. Similarily artists can be good at writing, but might not have anything truthful to say.
Valueing the flow or style of a movie over the thematic content is a different matter and I imagine we're in agreeance in saying this is the probably the most important aspect, rather than the "truths" it tries to express. If a movie is not stylistically sound, it becomes unwatchable. Not "untrue", but simply not enjoyable.
Art is escapism from the reality of life. It might take you a little while to understand this, but one day you will. You are still living in a dream world it seems. Hitchcock is decidely different from directors like Tarkovsky. It seems ridiculous to compare a man who turned paper back novels into films for mass consumption, with a man who tried to make very profound films. They were very different artists working in very different ways, though Tarkovsky never made anything as maniacally twisted as Psycho or Frenzy. He was a bit heavy handed compared to Hitch, and a bit of a bore.
The Wallace Stevens quote makes sense but my quotes don't? Okay...
Also why do you like Scenes From a Marriage so much. It is not Nykvist's most interesting work (most of which is in black and white) and it's one of Bergman's most conservative, and yes theatrical, films. I don't know. I think it is a very good film, and I could understand it being someone's favorite, but Bergman did make better films than that one. Then again I haven't been drinking the Carney kool-aid.
Your analogies are beyond awful. I'm not discussing law, I'm not discussing Hitler (hello Godwin's law). I'm not discussing Stephen King's flawless syntax or DW Griffith's visionary angles. The fact that a style exists is not enough in itself, it's mere state of being does not make it significant. The greatest artists use form in a way that is imaginatively transformative, not to escape emotional complexities but to explore them. Your notion of truth lays in ideas, that's false. The truth is in the flow.
You demonstrate a typically significant lack of understanding, it's funny how you equate your increasingly smug tone with amiability. You aren't here to discuss film, you're here to patronizingly assert your position as if it were gospel (without really backing up your inane opinions). But it's okay, your understanding will change in time and you'll see the error in your ways. It may be as painful as when you kicked the Scaruffi habit, but it's for the better (I have realized how you turn "violent" towards those you previously followed, and it's ironic how you had once joking/prophetically said that was bound to happen). What I don't understand as why you think it matters that I find Tarkovsky to be infinitely better than Hitch (it reminds me of when your [Listological?] life seemed to hinge on me liking Kubrick). Just because they succeeded in their different goals doesn't make them equals. Of course I'm not surprised you endorse a disengagement with reality, it seems to be something you regularly practice. I like how you didn't actually respond to the couple of fallacies I perceive to be in Hitchcock's work though.
I clearly stated "any of the quotes" and not "your quotes". I suppose your inability to grasp art is no surprise when one takes into consideration your serious reading comprehension issues (but I suppose straw men are always easier to argue with).
As mentioned; the lighting, palatte and close ups are all cinematic, but I suppose it's difficult to refute that. I see no reason to explicate why I love the film to you considering your posts towards me are a scattershot of half-baked insults that simply present a premise without justification. Also, considering Bergman is one of the most canonical of all directors, and Scenes is as far as I know universally renowned, your Carney reference is half fatuous and half lolsome.
You are merely making judgements of taste & throwing arbitrary signifiers ie - I like Tarkovsky's films, therefore they are truthful. You can make logical observations ie Tarkovsky is slow paced, languid, & searching, but saying his films represent the reality of human emotions is a bit of a stretch. The power of art, after all, is that it's more interesting than reality, otherwise we'd marvel at the eight hour sky skraper video shot by Andy Warhol.
"You aren't here to discuss film, you're here to patronizingly assert your position as if it were gospel (without really backing up your inane opinions)."
This seems mostly a setup for you to do exactly that in the following sentences: attack my personal character & Listological presenece. Notice how I never attacked your personal character, merely pointed out the fact that Art is escapism to some degree. Tarkovsky agrees, Welles agrees. Show me a film that accurately portrays reality or the inner lives of people. You can't. Film is 24 FPS, it is its own form, a mere representation of the human eye or the minds. I've given numerous examples and analogies to explain my point of view. I'm not sure you've done the same.
"I clearly stated "any of the quotes" not "your quotes". I suppose your inability to grasp art is no surprise when one takes into consideration your serious reading comprehension issues (but I suppose straw men are easier to argue with)."
When I said "my quotes" I meant of course the two quotes from Tarkovsky and Welles, contrasted by your quote from Wallace Stevens. Seems simple enough. But let's go back to that Tarkovsky quote, "The artist exists because the world is not perfect. Art would be useless if the world were perfect, as man wouldn't look for harmony but would simply live in it." Do you see what he's saying? He is pointing out that art imposes false harmony onto life that is otherwise missing. I'm not sure how this quote is not releveant to the discussion. The very film maker you praise admits his art has a "false" quality because it turns chaos into order.
As for Hitchcock, I imagine you and I are in the same boat. He is one of the great film makers, but also one of the most over rated. If you were to make a list of the top 50 directors, surely his name would be on there. But top 5? Top 3!? The best part of Hitch is his confident and assured style. Few directors have such mastery over the elements of their films, & even though he tells such stupid stories, the intensity of his film making makes it very watchable. Perhaps only Psycho was a film that expressed any real truth. I like late Hitchcock - Frenzy and Family Plot especially. Less melodramatic. But comparing him to Tarkovsky is like comparing Raymond Chandler to James Joyce. Do people watch Hitchcock or read Chandler for truth? No, cuz its entertaining and fun, and overal very readable. This is an art in itself & I wonder if Tarkovsky would be capable of it. There are many different kinds of films. I don't agree with this elitist stance that one type is inherently better than the other, though Tarkovsky was a greater artist. No question about that (imo).
If you can't take it don't dish it out. Most posts you make towards me contain some sort of ad hominem remark, and your tone is very A-Clockwork-Orange (I suppose you'll take that as a compliment though). If you're going to be arrogant enough to present your opinions as "facts" and tell me in a belittling way that I'll eventually get it (isn't that what all the Scaruffi fans say when their selections are questioned?) then I see no reason as to why I shouldn't treat you in kind.
Art isn't reality insofar as it's a personal creation (re: not pre-existing), but that doesn't mean it lacks the ability to engage it. It may seen unnatural in its ability to bring us to consciousness, but that's precisely what's right about it. Just because we don't always live in the heightened sense of awareness that occurs when we read a Whitman poem doesn't mean that it's a form of escaping life. It dissolves pre-existing forms of awareness and rebuilds them from the ground up, and that sort of thing happens on a regular basis. Even in conversations words can be exchanged, shoulders can be shrugged and suddenly you're looking at a person from a new perspective. The experiences of great art are very real, they don't elevate one out of the troubles of ordinary life. It's easy to say that art doesn't contain the risks of real life, but it's a notion I disagree with. Furtwangler's dramatic, unrivaled, masterful interpretation of the 9th symphony just proved that to me again a couple days ago. I have to say, it's weird for me to see you say in the one hand that art can communicate truth, but on the other say it's escapism. I think of the two terms as being mutually exclusive.
I don't know what Tarkovsky is talking about, his work has a lot of harmony but there's plenty of dissonance too. I do not watch his work to live in a state of harmony, given the astute nature of his writing I'm almost disappointed that he said such a thing. His work is constantly keeping me guessing, re-adjusting my understandings and offering a new way of viewing the world. Similarly, Bach's work is harmonic, but it's not a tranquil experience. One can still lose their breath trying to stay with him, note by note.
And yeah, we agree re: Hitchcock (I think Rope deserves more attention). There's nothing wrong with entertainment in itself, but I don't like when it's used as a form of exceptionalism. Just because works are made with differing intentions doesn't mean they should be treated as if in a vacuum, without being compared to other works. Here's a quote from Gary Groth that I think is on-point: "...I've come to despise the term 'entertainment.' It's a trump card used to justify every form of idiocy and debasement our culture can regurgitate. It's its own justification, an end in itself, the ultimate, circular market rationalization that makes any discussion of aesthetic, moral, or cultural values moot."
Perhaps I have been pushing my own opinions as fact. I am after all someone very interested in abstract concepts, especially when it comes to art, and my conception of art is a very Classical one going back to the Greeks. Hopefully I can post some writings on it to better explain where I'm coming from. But if I may be blunt, most of what you write is to these ears pretentious drivel. That's why I prefer the clean categories of those ancient thinkers. Their thinking was so unmuddled! A philosophy of escapism.
This quote from Gary Groth sounds like the cliche intellectual upset with his fellow man - the philistine. He is akin to the snobby French chef who looks down upon fast food, forgetting that his resturant serves the same purpose.
One man purchases a ticket to the Tarkovsky film festival, stopping first at a cafe to argue existential ontology, dashing back home to retrive a forgotten beret, then settling in for a transcendent experience that will change his life, which he can write about later in his blog. Another goes to see the latest Johny Knoxville film in 3D, stopping first to down a 48oz drink from 7/11, and after sneaking a KFC value bucket under his jacket, proceeds to projectile vomit blue slush into the long hair of the woman sitting in front, who patiently scoops it out into a small container, which she will later use for decidedly erotic purposes.
Is there really a difference between these two activities? It may appear so on the surface, but I think the essence of art remains the same: to entertain/stimulate. It is mainly a difference of degree. Some go to the conservatorium to hear Schoenberg. Some goto the stadium and dance to the Backstreet Boys. Aside from obvious differences in musical sophisitication, is there an inherent difference between the man busking Green Day songs in the street vs. Leonard Bernstein conducting Beethoven's Ninth?
I think it is kind of ridiculous the pedestal certain art gets placed upon. Some art is drastically better than others, but all art is essentially entertainment. Just that different art entertains people in different ways.