The Sequel is Actually Better!
Submitted by lbangs on Fri, 05/23/2003 - 11:02
Tags:
- The Godfather Part II
- The Empire Strikes Back
- Spider-Man 2
- Gremlins 2: The New Batch
- The Road Warrior (AKA Mad Max 2)
- The Wrong Trousers
- Terminator 2: Judgment Day (feel free to disagree...)
- Toy Story 2 (see above)
- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
- Superman II (though I fear a reviewing might make me think on this one a bit)
- From Russia with Love
- A Shot in the Dark
- Addams Family Values
- The Bride of Frankenstein
- X2: X-Men United
- Pumping Iron 2: The Women
- Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
- Before Sunset
- The Great Muppet Caper
Author Comments:
Alright, I am getting very bored and bugged by the very large slate of summer sequels Hollywood is belching out at the moment. I'm trying to be a bit positive here, so this list is the result.
Now, I love suggestions, but be aware that to join this list, I'll have to have seen both the original and sequel and to agree with you. Oh, and the sequel must actually be somewhat decent too (ie, don't try to convince that the second Friday the 13th is actually a bit better than the first, even if they both stunk). Realizing that, suggest away, but don't get mad at me if everything below does not appear above.
Great list! I agree almost completely with everything on this list. Notes:
Can The Wrong Trousers really be considered a sequel?
You know I slightly prefer Toy Story, but it's close.
Aren't you edging dangerously close to Friday the 13th territory with the Gremlins entry? :-) Actually, I don't think I've seen The New Batch.
I too remember preferring Superman II, but it was so long ago...
How would you feel about Aliens over Alien? Manon of the Spring over Jean de Florette? I preferred Mission Impossible 2 but I know that's a lonely remote island I'm standing on there.
Thanks!
I'm not really sure if The Wrong Trousers can count, but I'm not entirely convinced it can't. Certainly, if the Bond film can be included, the Wallace one can too, or no? I'm a'thinkin...
I actually enjoyed Gremlins 2. It really isn't a scary film at all, but a mile-a-minute spoof. Odd film, really, and not a *favorite* of mine, but I certainly had fun. You'll have to check it out some day.
I've been considering the Jean vs. Manon issue for a couple of hours now, and I'm leaning toward Manon, but I'm still thinking. I like them both quite a bit.
I haven't seen Mission Impossible 2 all the way through yet... :(
As for the Alien flicks, I'm a rather firm supporter of the original over the sequel. I liked Aliens, much more than I expected in fact, but I still favor the creepy original over the action-packed follow-up by a mile.
Thanks for the suggestions! Don't be surprised if Manon pops up soon, and I'll try to watch the second Mission, which I've wanted to do since seeing the first hour anyway. I'll admit, though, that I really liked the first one (in many ways, the first one was the best Bond film since License to Kill)... ;)
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Yeah, I was going to ping you on the Bond question too, but on further consideration I vote for keeping it and the Trousers. Removing them would detract from the list. See my post below on the Alien/Aliens thing . . .
I too agree with a lot of this list. But Jim Aliens is not better than the first one. I might give you MI 2 but they both sucked and the first one has the distinction of having the stupidest bad guy in the history of movies.
I loved both Alien and Aliens, but find them uniquely difficult to compare, sequel-wise. Are they the only sequels (well, along with Gremlins) that are firmly in different genres? Alien is a horror movie and Aliens is an action movie. So to compare them I find myself asking which stands out more in its respective genre. Is Alien a better horror movie than Aliens is an action movie? I can't name too many movies that are clearly better horror movies than Alien, nor can I name many action movies that decisively top Aliens. But when forced to choose I go for Aliens (but to be fair I've only watched Alien once or twice compared to six-ish for Aliens).
As for MI2, thanks for giving it to me, but it's a phyrric victory. :-) I knew it was a lonely island. I liked it, but the ocean is full of naysayers.
Nice list, lbangs. I agree that "Terminator 2" is better than the original, ditto for "Empire." I'm not sure whether I preferred "Toy Story" or its sequel; it would be a close call. I brainstormed some possible additions:
Don't you like "The Spy Who Shagged Me" better than "Austin Powers"? I could've sworn I read you saying that somewhere on this site.
Have you seen "Hot Shots!" and "Hot Shots! Part Deux"? I think I prefer the latter.
You may disagree, but I liked "A Shot in the Dark" better than "The Pink Panther."
Also, this is probably pushing the limits of your "the original has to be decent too" rule, but I've heard that "Evil Dead 2" is much better than the original. I think this might be an exception to your rule since it's not a very slight difference like in your "Friday the 13th" example; the sequel is significantly better.
Could "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" be considered a sequel to "A Fistful of Dollars" and "A Few Dollars More"? Could "Silence of the Lambs" be considered a sequel to "Manhunter"? How about the Three Colors trilogy? I admit I haven't seen it, but I think that the first film of that isn't the most acclaimed one.
And I'd also like to agree with Jim that "Manon" is better than "Jean."
Great comments! I'm in a huge hurry, so I'll respond in depth later.
And I'll also chime in on your reading list you posted earlier!
Have a great weekend! Hopefully, I'll be back on later tonight - if not, definitely tomorrow!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
I do believe I said I liked the second Powers more than the first, but a recent viewing of the original has thrown my call into doubt. I'll think a bit on this.
I've only seen the first Hot Shots. I'll have to try and catch the second one soon.
You are dead on concerning A Shot in the Dark, and I will add it soon! Great catch!
To be honest, I'm not really sure I personally thought Evil Dead 2 was better than the first one. Like the Alien films, they are hard to compare; the first was a horror film with some very funny scenes, the second was a comedy with a few horror overtones. I often wonder if one must be a Three Stooges fan to favor the second installment... ;)
The Leone film is a good call, but for this list, I'm really only considering second films in a series, not third films. You're absolutely right, of course, about The Good besting the previous two.
Manhunter / Silence of the Lambs is a tough call. They are clearly based on books that are sequels, but when the franchise disavows the original installment to the point of making its own version of the same novel, can we really count the film Silence of the Lambs as the sequel to the film Manhunter? Any comments on the matter are more than welcome here.
I'm still considering Manon. I love both of those films, so it is a tough call for me... :(
Thanks for the great comments!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Yeah, both "Jean" and "Manon" were great films, but in my opinion, two things make "Manon" the better film: (1) Ugolin's obsessive pining for Manon, and (2) the awesome ending.
There's a definite case though, for Army of Darkness (sequel to both Evil Dead movies) as the best of the three. Does that fall under the rubric of this list?
Yeah, third parts of a series are outside the scope of this list.
Besides (shhh), I'm not really sure that I still wouldn't favor the first one.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
I would include X2 on here in a heartbeat.
I'll have to check that one out. Honestly, though, I was disappointed enough in the first part to probably wait for the sequel to hit DVD.
Although I can always be convinced. How good is it, exactly?
You know what would be a huge hit if done correctly? The New Mutants. I suspect, however, it would work better as a television show than a film. It could be the new Buffy!
Considering, of course, it doesn't get mucked up, which, of course, it probably would be. Alas.
Shalom, y'al!
L. Bangs
Well, as far as fun, interesting, and exciting action movies go, I would say that X2 is miles above 99% of the crap we see. I caught The Matrix Reloaded the other night. Let's just say that Reloaded was nowhere near the quality of X2.
A while back they made a TV movie of "Generation X" (the 90's version of the New Mutants). They screwed it up...badly. I expect that they would do the same to the New Mutants. Though, if they were to get a good director and screenwriter to make a Generation X movie, I wouldn't complain. I would kill to see Banshee, White Queen, M, and Husk on the big screen.
To me, much of the appeal of the New Mutants was the exact element any attempt to film it will probably kill. The kids were awkward and decidedly unglamorous, for the most part, and any mutant ability at first simply intensified their feeling of being strange rather than enpowering them. And of course, few of them could come close to consciously controlling those powers. Some interesting potential for metaphors to be played with, there. The tone would have to be closer to Ghost World or Freaks and Geeks than to X-Men, and I don't see a studio going that way with it.
Well, consider X2 moved up quite a ways on my 'To See' list! (I think Matrix 2 has sadly sunk off of that list...) Thanks for the comments!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
And you'd be right, sir AAA.
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
No, no, no! A thousand times no! I won't have it. SUPERMAN II is in no way superior to SUPERMAN. You do need to re-view. I'm confident you'll see the very distinct superiority of SUPERMAN. (Shudder!)
Well, it is the second part I need to see again, since I recently caught the first one again. I honestly love the first half of the original - it is Hollywood mythmaking at its best!
But that ending with the round-the-world bit...
Forgive me! Overall, though, I still dig the film.
I do recall some pretty cheesy parts in the sequel, so I'll have to check it out again soon.
Sorry for the convulsions! ;)
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
I suspect the 'round-the-world bit' is a case of being true to the comic-book original. It is a truly silly idea, but sf, especially sf of the thirties (was it?) is full of silly ideas. I respectfully suggest you are taking the Superman movies too seriously. The cheesy parts are part of the fun.
Fair enough, although I will point out that I have a hardbound, reprint collection of the first four or five years of the original Superman comics (including his appearances before becoming a standalone comic), and even then, there was nothing nearly quite *that* silly.
But the issue of cheese really only enters in when a cheesy section doesn't seem to fit in with the tone of the rest of the film, and I'm afraid that is what hurts that 'earth' finale for me. It really seems out of place, off-key, to this poor soul.
On the other hand, I seem to recall the cheese in the sequel fitting into the film much better. As I said, though, a rewatch is certainly in order here!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Okay, nothing beats the documents. It was a supposition on my part, and it's good to have one's false suppositions corrected. So the fault is with the movie, not with the original. Even so, I stand adamant that SUPERMAN is the better movie by far. S2 has the same cast and continues the same story but has about one tenth the entertainment value.
I prefer:
Aliens to Alien
Superman to Superman II
A Shot In The Dark to The Pink Panther
These three probably rank amongst my top 50 movies of all time, and the first two amongst the top 20 (probably).
Well, you'll be pleased about that last entry, then. I'm still considering the Superman question, but I'm afraid I'm not budging on the Alien issue. Aliens is a fine film, but Alien is a near-masterpiece. As an added bonus, Alien has none of Cameron's tin-ear dialogue! (Anyone remember the SNL spoof on this one?)
Thanks for the comments!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
I didn't see the SNL spoof, and I'm going to stay in the Aliens camp, but you could almost convert me with that "tin-ear dialogue" line. So true. Have I mentioned the thankfully-deleted Bill Paxton scene (from the DVD extras) where he's bragging about how tough the marines are? Cringeworthy.
I've seen that scene. Out of context, it is sorta funny. As part of the film, it would have certainly set off my cringing mechanism.
The spoof had a marine feaking out and spouting lines like, "That's it man. We're like, whole wheat toast and jam, man, we're like, shredded cheese, man."
Do those lines remind anybody else of the 'terrific' dialogue from that other "Why didn't they just make it a silent film?" classic, Predator?
I think this is the way seven year old boys imagine marines, space or otherwise, must talk like. Cool!
:)
Ignoring the dialogue, Aliens has oodles going for it. It is certainly one of the best action films of its time, and they were churning out a lot back then. Good movie, even if the finale was partly carbon-copied from the original (which some found charming).
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
You guys might be interested to know that Bill Paxton's bragging scene ("Hey, Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of badasses will protect you...We got nukes...sharp sticks..." that scene?) has always been part of the movie in this part of the world (Australia). I saw the movie at the cinema, on tape, and on dvd, and I've never seen the movie without it.
Wow, I never would have guessed that. Very interesting.
Did the prints there include any of Ripley's discoveries of the missing crew? For spoilers sake, I won't say more, but I'm sure you know what I mean if you've seen it.
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
No, the missing crew stays missing. I've heard there's a scene where she finds a certain Company man and mercifully grants his wish for death but it was always deleted here.
Wow, y'all really do get shafted movie-wise down there, don't you? Between the Region 4 neglect and having to stomach badly written Bill Paxton braggadocio, I don't know how you can stand it! :-)
You'd almost think our studios had a grudge against ya or something!
Maybe that Yahoo Serious guy has a hand in here...
:)
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Oo, Predator as a silent film - what a great concept! Y'know, I loved that movie when it first came out... I'd cringe, but that wouldn't be entirely honest since I bet I'd still like it today.
I remember finally being able to enjoy the film to some degree once everybody in the copters finally shut up!
We won't even mention that sequel, however, which will never find a home above...
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Addams Family Values is a great addition. I completely agree.
Thanks! This one just popped in my head yesterday, and I am very curious to see what response it receives. I thought it was much better than the original, but the box office suggest I may not be in the majority...
Glad that I'm not alone!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Im so glad the Matrix reloaded isn't here.
I haven't seen it yet, and from what I'm hearing, it may be a LOOOONG time until I do. If I do.
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Prisoner of Azkaban was even better, which totally beats the odds.
Magnum Force should get serious consideration over Dirty Harry... although i believe Dirty Harry to be a better movie... it is very close... and IMO the best sequel ever.
I will have to watch Magnum Force. I caught it decades ago, and my memory of it is nearly nonexistent.
Thanks!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Among those I have seen, I almost agree (Gremlins 2, Terminator 2, Addams Family Values, From Russia with Love, etc.).
Just one sequel where I definetly disagree: The Empire Strikes Back better than Star Wars. Why?
I just think it tops the first one in nearly every way. It had a better script, director, vision, effects, acting, and ending, not to mention one of the best revelations in film history.
At least, that's how I see it...
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Ok, what about the two Astérix and Obélix-films with Christian Clavier and Gérard Depardieu? I think the sequel was much better than the first.
I disagree on the Terminator II because the special effects that were revolutionary in 1992 have lost their appeal and their, well, effect now while the first movie remains what it has always been, a very tightly-written, directed and played movie with absolutely not a second of film wasted
But I mostly disagree about Mad Max... though it doesn't stoop to the "ewok level" of trying to seduce a family audience like the third Mad Max movie did, the second one already shows those signs, focusing on colorful characters (including a child, a father figure, a "silly cousin" figure and a girl-next-door figure), comic book inspired villains and vehicles and forgetting in the process to have a screenpaly that rises above the "twisted fairytale" so yes, Mad Max II succeeded in its time to establish a new mythology about what life could be in a post WWIII desert world without oil but, really, the movie lacks everything that Mad Max had, namely an engaging screenplay and relevant dialogues, multi-faceted characters and, mostly, a valid reason for exposing real-life and not comic-book violence. Almost thirty years later, Mad Max remains provocative and disturbing, even in repeated viewings, while Mad Max II only retains a nostalgia feel that doesn't hide the overall emptiness of the movie, once you look past the smokescreen of all that post-apocalyptic premise.
Thank you for reading :)
I might agree if I thought Terminator II only had effects to offer. In my book, it is one of the best sequels ever to follow a film that did not ask for a sequel. The story ideas are brilliant. I like both films, but...
As for Mad Max, I can only hide behind the fact that I have seen the film twice, and neither time did it impress me with quite the same effect it has generated in its fans. It is a tight, exciting film that is gloriously exploded open wide in the sequel. Is the sequel empty? I find it thrilling both in vision and execution.
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
I really like both Yojimbo and Sanjuro and i think the sequel is better.
I don't remember having the same reaction, but honestly, it has been a very long time since I have seen Sanjuro...
Perhaps a revisiting will be in the cards soon.
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs