Overrated "Indie" Films of the 90s
Submitted by JohnnyW on Sat, 04/28/2001 - 07:08
Tags:
- Kids
- Crash
- Lolita
- Cop Land
- Shine
- The Keys to Tulsa
- Two Days in the Valley
- Walking and Talking
- The Last Supper
- Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels
- Shakespeare in Love
- Beautiful Girls
- The Brothers McMullen
- The House of Yes
Author Comments:
At this point, I'd be inclined to add almost anything produced by Miramax in the last few years of the nineties (with a few exceptions). Anything I should add?
While I disagree highly with Lolita, may I be so bold as to suggest the inclusion of "The Brothers McMullen". It won Sundance, I believe, and played to me like a warmed-over episode of "Thirtysomething".
Kids? Did I read this right? Are you kidding? My god man, thats one of the greatest films...ever.
Sure, if pretense and so-called "shock value" are the standards for great films. Down with Harmony Korine!
Johnny Waco
Pretense? Shock Value. try realistic portrails of today's youth and their niavete. This film intelligently looks at our youth and how they think they are indestructable. The film was shot in an almost documentary type look to give us the effects of authenticity. It is brilliant, and how someone with your knowledge and wisdom doesn't see that baffles me. Whatever.
I've known a lot of young people in my life, and never seen anything close to Kids' "realistic" depiction of youthful depravity. It's a look at what a jaded, cynical "artiste" would consider the state of America's youth. Once again, it seems a pathetic, transparent attempt at getting attention through "pushing the envelope"...
Johhny Waco
I guess you skipped adolescence.
Not the last time I thought back. However, if you experienced a level of nihilism usually reserved for existential philosophers, and took part in continuous binge drinking of forties and engaged in nightly, rolling orgies with hundreds of STD-infected teens who have no apparent parents or other adults in their lives, then I have a difficult time believing you grew up in Oklahoma. Or any of the forty-nine U.S. states for that matter. What the black-clad, beret-wearing, Nietzsche-absorbing, Village-living makers of Kids wish American teens were like...
Johnny Waco
Forty-nine OTHER U.S. states. Sorry;)
Jblack, where do you live?!? Kids is no kinda reality I've seen, and I think I'm a pretty qualified lower-middle class big-city dweller (in this case i think i know something of what i'm talking about). Just because something has the "look of authenticity" doesn't mean it's authentic.
Also, you've posted on one of my movie lists, and although i dont see myself as a movie critic, i'm having a hard time buy some of your movie viewing claims. Are you telling me (and the rest of the listology community) that you've seen enough movies between the years 1901-1919 to give your top five for each year. That's 95 of the greatest movies before 1920!!! Dude, listen, i understand that you might really want the top slot on listology, but it's not a race. I would be interested in seeing some quality articles written on the top five movies of 1901.
I agree with your views on Kids (you got my back), but the personal criticism may be a little harsh. I don't know about this top slot business; I've added a LOT of lists myself recently. Anyway, in a non-hostile way, I actually would like to see some reviews or synopses of those early films...
Johnny Waco
Well Johnny, that would almost be impossible since I haven't seen these films since 1987. I explained to Jim in an earlier post, I dug up a notebook from college when I was in film school, and I based my rankings from that and my knowledge from memory to organize such list.
So, basically what I'm trying to say is, yes I've seen these movies. However I only could use what I ranked them in college as a guide, so They may not be as accurate as I would hope. About Kids, dont take my comments personally. We just disagree radically on this film. Whatever, ya' know? I hope I didnt offend you in any way. I respect you alot and I wouldn't want you to think I was being condescending. Sometimes I come off that way, it's not intended. I get rather into debates . So, I hope we are cool. It would mean alot to me.
No, of course we're cool. I'm not advocating jlunger's inflamatory comments in any way, shape, or form; I commented on synopses for my own personal information, not to "check up" on anyone. I've always wanted to see more silent films, including from the first decade of the century, and I can rarely find any info on them.
About Kids, I have yet to take any of our sparring personally; I've actually been enjoying the back and forth. I know we're not going to change each other's minds, so I've simply been playing up my views, and I realize you were as well. So absolutely, no hard feelings at all...
Johnny Waco
Good. I worry sometimes I may insult someone, in this case it looks like jlunger took it a little hard. Oh well, what can I do man? I can't move mountains. Anyway, you're in Texas somewhere right. I'm only 30 miles from the border. I'd like to meet you sometime. It could be possible since we are in bordering states.
I'll avoid answering any more of your posts now jlunger. Do the same for me.
jlunger, I think maybe you and jblack should steer clear of each other for awhile. Your first paragraph is fine, but your attack on jblack's credibility in the second paragraph strays pretty far afield from the topic at hand, and could be viewed as a personal attack. Personally, I have no doubt jblack has seen all the movies he's listed, and I'm glad he's taken the time and effort to categorize them for us here. By the same token, I'm glad you have strong opinions and have chosen Listology as the forum in which to air them. Consider this a gentle request to criticise the text, not the source.
I'll certainly take your comments into heavy consideration, (okay, I'll steer clear) but i offer no apologies for my actions. I do enjoy your site and will continue to post lists and comments.
Thanks for the compliments, and for respecting the "steer clear" request. Maybe it'll just be a cooling off period rather than a permanent arrangement, but I guess time will tell on that one.
The Brothers McMullen definitely belongs; I remember being very disappointed by it. Speaking of Sundance favorites, I think The House of Yes belongs too, although I might get a lot of disagreement on that one.
Lolita was OK in my opinion, but after all of Adrian Lynne's whining about "censorship," etc. etc., I felt it had to be nothing short of a revelation to justify his behavior.
Johnny Waco
To me, it was. It's easily one of my favorite films ever, and my very favorite adaptation of a novel to film. But, of course, there is much disagreement on this front.