CC00004: R.E.M.
Submitted by lbangs on Tue, 02/20/2001 - 10:24
Tags:
- Murmur (10)
- Automatic for the People (10)
- Document (10)
- Reckoning (9)
- Out of Time (8.5)
- New Adventures in Hi-Fi (8)
- Eponymous (7.5)
- Life's Rich Pageant (7.5)
- Green (6.5)
- Monster (6)
- Fables of the Reconstruction (6)
- Up (6)
- Dead Letter Office (5)
Author Comments:
This is the fourth in a new series I call Critical Consensus. I am averaging the opinions of several excellent music critics to produce a list of each artist's albums. The albums will each have a rating between 1 and 10. The albums will be listed in a recommended purchasing order, so new fans will have an idea of where the best place to start buying an artist's work is. These are not my opinions, although, since I have chosen the critics used (and I'm using many), my taste will perhaps seep through a bit.
Terribly nerdy, I know, but maybe this will help people only now beginning to dabble into certain artists' bodies of work.
A flaw in The Listology is that there is no way to post a general comment to someone. But this seems like as good a place as any . . . It seems, from your numbering scheme (CC1, CC2, etc.), that you'd like these lists to display in a certain order. Unfortunately, strings don't sort the same way numbers do, so you end up with sorting problems like this (CC19, CC1, CC20). The solution is to prepend on some leading zeros (CC01, CC02, ... CC10, CC11). This will result in your lists being sorted in the correct order.
Oh! Another thing . . . If you think you might create 100 of these CC lists, you can save yourself some work now by doing all 3-digit numbers (001, 002, etc.).
And since I can't bring myself to not make a comment topical to the list at hand, I think "Out of Time", while deserving of it's rating, is perhaps more accessible than some of the albums higher on the list.
And how 'bout a Peter Gabriel CC list? Tough to order, I'd think.
I appreciate the tip about numbering the CC entries, and I will try to convert my lists to that format.
We seem to be sharing similar thoughts lately. I finished up Peter Gabriel last night, and I posted his list this morning. So, in particular, seems to have slipped a bit in the critics' eyes. Passion was the most polarizing album, with some critics stating it as a favorite and some critics claiming it be a boring rehash of So. Obviously, the former outnumbered the later.
I almost put Out of Time near the top of the list. I'll share my reservations with you, and I'd like to hear your response.
I try to use three factors when ordering the list - greatness, accessibility [sic], and the degree to which an album represents an artist's work. Greatness is most important; any album or film that easily towers over the rest of the artists' work (such as George Harrison's All Things Must Pass) will end up at the top. Baring a singular work such as this, I use the second two factors rather equally. I am rather convinced that Out of Time is the easiest REM album to listen to, but I wonder if it is very representative of their work. Other than Green, does Out of Time give a very good indication of what to expect from the rest of the group's body of albums? At the time, I thought no, giving the top slots to two albums that reflected their various sounds well (Murmur and Document) and one unique album that scored too highly to be ignored (Automatic). I am still mulling this over, however. What do you think?
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
All right! You've made room for 99,999 CC lists! I like a man that sets his sights high.
Based on this description, I agree completely on your ranking. When I suggested moving Out of Time and Nirvana's live MTV album up on their respective lists, it was based on your comment that the CC lists help form a "recommended purchasing order." When I first read that, I thought that "accessibility" would have to weigh in quite heavily, and it hadn't occurred to me that it wouldn't be fair if accessibility outweighed "representative work." To put a non-representative work too high creates false expectations. It makes sense to temper "accessible" with "representative", and thus I'd agree that Out of Time belongs where you put it (and I also agree that's it is perhaps the easiest REM album to listen to).
Thank you, Jim. I greatly appreciate your comments; they help alot. Ordering these lists is possibly the hardest part of creating the CC lists. Averaging the views of the critics is an easy, straight-forward (if long) process, but decided the order to recommend the album in is very difficult, and the Out of Time album was one of the hardest to place. Hearing your comments, I feel a bit more confident about it now than I did. For now, I'll leave it where it is.
Keep me on my toes, Jim!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
All right, I know I'm always sticking up for the underdog (somebody use pop psychology on me!), but Monster is criminally underrated. By the time it came out, many people had already decided what REM should sound like, and a grungy, searing rock band was not it. However, Monster is the sound of REM having fun, and the lyrics remain as well-crafted as ever, while managing to fit the louder, harder music. I like the fact that Stipe and company don't go gentle into the good night...
Johnny Waco
Interesting theory. After Out of Time, REM promised to deliver a rock album. Of course, they hit us with Automatic for the People. I guess Monster was simply delayed. I think most REM fans were waiting for a ripping rock disc, and therefore, I think they wanted to like Monster. I know I did.
I was ready to hear the band rock again, but unfortunately, I tend to agree with Monster's lackluster ratings. A few of the singles shine, but some the songwriting is incredibly lazy, and the production often softens what should be a rough roar of glam rock perfection. Guitars rage, but they often sound strangely sterile or muffled. The sloppy tunes and crippling production never let this album run wild. It is an interesting, occasionally brilliant, but frustrating and disappointing album. I sold my copy off a few months after buying it, and I haven't missed it since.
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
When a post like this can not get a response from him, I am convinced that Johnny Waco has disappeared from the face of the planet...
Still with us, Johnny?
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
So you want a response, do you Mr. Marsh--I mean, Bangs. Well I'm back on the planet and convinced more than ever that Monster is a neglected gem. Not every song is a standout, to be sure, but the album is very much a mood-piece, a rare thing among albums that rock like this one does. It's almost like REM's glam-rock period, an overdose of T-Rex and their fuzzy take on this thing called rock. Shoot me if i've gone insane, but the amount of distortion cloaking the melodies makes me wonder if our friend Stipe wasn't listening to more than a little lo-fi, specifically Pavement...
Johnny Waco
I can dig that you enjoy it (I wish I did more), but I can't buy the Pavement comparison. Monster doesn't strike me as rough and ragged. It strikes me as over-produced and ill-produced. The melodies aren't really cloaked, they're just played on guitars that glide more than bite. The fuzz sounds sterile instead of cheap and dangerous. Perhaps they were trying to create a new glam. Perhaps the producer just blew it...
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
I think Lester & Johnny ought to face off in a glam rock battle royale. Lester, how 'bout you coming out as T.Rex and Johnny as Ziggy Stardust. I'll mediate and make a list of who can strike the best poses.
Can I get a witness?,
Tommy Hellfingers
I'm willing to wager Johnny and I may want to swap personas. Besides, he'd probably rather be a New York Doll...
Amen!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs
Personally, I think Mr. Hellfingaz (aka Dr. Nutt) should dress up as a member of Devo while lester and I square off against himm; all I have to say is, "Digital Chips flip my Midget Scripts..."
Johnny Waco
PS Tommy, Why you so blind? / Why you so blind????
I can hear him now ... I've gotten scalped!
Shalom, y'all!
L. Bangs (a pioneer into his own mind)
Molest me again, sir, and you shall feel the lash of my biting wit and searing logic against your pitiful shoulder!
Take you heed!,
Dr. Nut