I listen to it as it's own, and find it remarkable, (perhaps a little more emotional/amazing than, say, Interstellar Overdrive -- though my opinion of Grosse Fuge's greatness vary wildly from time to time [as high as 8.8+ at one point]). Basically, it's the friggin' birth of free jazz!
Große Fuge is one of those works I feel iffy about how to listen to. Should an individual listen to it by itself or as part of his 13th quartet? From what I've read, the Große Fuge was published by itself because of it's incomprehensibility. But should we listen to it as Beethoven originally intended - as being the conclusion of his 13th?
You guys should check out his Fratres, for Violin & Piano. It's a breathtaking work. Extremely nostalgic with a sense of stillness and timelessness. It gives off a sort of feeling like trying to retrace a childhood memory and trying to preserve it in some sort of metaphysical prism. I really suck at describing it, but it's one of those very unique works that leaves you with a feeling that seems impossible to describe. Check out the recording by Kremer & Jarrett.
I re-listened to some of their singles, and now I think I like Joy Division more: I never noticed before how powerful Dead Souls is especially! Definitely my fave JD track after Disorder. Single version of She's Lost Control is just as great as the album version too.
By "posthumous Ceremony release", you mean the New Order single?
One of the most favorite is Elena Jane Goulding known as Ellie Goulding, she is an English singer or multi-instrument. Rare people ability to achieved success in very short time. This younger became the second artist to both top the BBC’S annual sound of poll. Now fans ready for her next concerts in different places. ellie goulding concert tickets 2013 are available at ticketdove.com
DJ_1337.... Yeah about the Trance... Trance is starting to make a resurgence after a fair few years of being pretty crap...
I like John O'Callaghan, John Askew, Ashley Wallbridge, Andy Moor, Emma Hewitt vocals, Omnia & Aly n Fila... And of course old masters like Paul Oakenfold, BT & Cosmic Gate
Thanks again DJ_1337.... Yeah the Paula Abdul track alright, but again the intro explains that Pop artists' House remixes of their pop songs won't be in the list. Smalltown Boy is a Synth-Pop/New Wave track which doesn't qualify for my list, as explained in the introduction.
The Mark Simmons track is not bad... Got the original Disco/Soul track by Rene & Angela - I'll Be Good... Now that's a classic track.
As it happens Barbirolli is the only recording of the 9th that I've listened to. I see what you mean by omnipotence (Mahler: "For me 'symphony' signifies using all the means of available technique to construct a world for myself"). Perhaps "incessant darkness" was a mischaracterization, but it certainly lacks the engaging diversity and freshness of the fourth, though I think the ninth is probably better overall. I completely agree with your general descriptions of the different movements, but some of the more sluggish/repetitive stretches sometimes leave me feeling a little bored, whereas the few other works of his that I've heard don't demonstrate such a trait. I certainly don't rate the 9th as highly as you do (I think Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, Coltrane and Puccini--to name a few--did better work, which is no slight) or I once did myself, but I do think that it's one of the best pieces of music I've heard. In any case Mahler is one composer I'd like to commit a lot more time to, as it stands I'm a little shaky on my perception of him, as it has certainly shifted over the last couple of years.
I'm glad Mjongo mentioned Bruno Walter, though, he is near the top of the pile in terms of interpreters I've neglected but am dying to listen to.
Bruno Walter's 1961 Stereo recording of the 9th is my favorite by far, and I've heard at least ten others multiple times (the Barbirolli you linked to, two Karajans, two Bernsteins, Walter's earlier mono recording, Rattle's, Abbado's, Chailly's, and Dudumel's).
Re: Mahler's 9th ... It certainly has its share of darkness (particularly the devastating last movement) but I think much more dominant is how astoundingly dynamic it is; the multitude of emotions/changes/structures/ideas etc. For instance, the massive climaxes of its first movement, in their calamity, are simultaneously springing to life and falling apart -- the orchestra explodes in glory and surges in unison, but also fails in errors, erroneous notes/chords, confusion, frustration, struggle, before settling into serene dichotomies of beauty and sadness. The 2nd and 3rd movements compress these ideas into a generally more composed format while maintaining a tighter, more consistent progression. They lean towards their progression with a "natural order" and tense gradation, and like compositional rubik's cubes, constantly and suddenly change and swing between several orchestral formations, emotions and ideas. Within the 9th, Mahler somehow manages to encompass all life not just from within himself on a personal level, but also from a massive omnipotent perspective (such as God), and the symphony seems to have as its impetus and structural/emotional arc, the cycle (in form and content) of the universe: creation, survival/prosperity, and death.
Showing a complete mastery of the entire symphony, Barbirolli's conduction of Mahler's 9th is the best rendition I know of (maybe Karajan's too?) ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lJzL_DvVpA
Thanks for the invite to that String Quintet. Have I heard it? Don't think so... I'll check it out :)
The singles are where some of their best work lies. Especially the "Licht Und Blindheit" single with Atmosphere and Dead Souls. Or the posthumous Ceremony release (the two slightly botched live renditions of Ceremony are great as well). Or their most immediately accessible songs Transmission and Love Will Tear Us Apart.
GOSH it's been too damn long for me to know for sure... It's pretty short and tight in and of itself, though, so I dunno what to remove to make it a better-than-it-is EP.
Only English, really.
I have probably a 6-year-old's reading comprehension level in German, though.
Getting a little better at recognizing the gist of (archaic) Italian from the amount of opera I listen to/memorize though.
Update #14 (15 April) - Puzzgal stays the frontrunner and now has a 10 film advantage on mightysparks. No changes in the top 10 this week.
Seven players have an average of more than 1 film/day. I'm one of them. I saw seven films and stayed 6th.
Pink Floyd and Queen not being on the list is as if they are trying to make some sort of point. Did they not watch Live Aid? Queen totally, and unexpectedly, stole the show at the biggest rock concert of all time.
Don't think anyone else has mentioned it so this may not be a popular view, but I think The Bee Gees should be on there for their writing talent if nothing else.
* Delgo 2008
* King Dick (Adults Movie)
*** more Barbie movies:
Barbie as the Princess and the Pauper 2004
Barbie and the Magic of Pegasus (2005)
The Barbie Diaries (2006)
Barbie: Mermaidia (2006)......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie_(film_series)
* Alvin and the Chipmunks 2007 + Sequel
* Bambi 2
* Brother Bear 2
* Cars 2
* Charlie Brown - 4 movies only
(the rest is 25 min specials like the great pumpkin)
* ice age 3+4
* Kong Fu Panda 2
* Lilo and Stitch 2 + Leroy and Stitch
* The True Story of Puss n Boots
* (Shrek) Puss in Boots
I think that your list is very good yet still very inaccurate. I noticed all of the top 10 albums require a very high degree of abstract thought and a fine tuned musical ear in order to enjoy them. While this list is an oasis for those who long for deep and abstract music, I don't think think it describes the very best in electronic music.
A song that is good can only hold a certain amount of complexity in specific ways. If there is too much complexity in too many ways, the song feels scrambled or overwhelming. If the song lacks complexity, then anything it tries to express will be handicapped and toned down. The songs you consider to be the very best hold their complexity in their deepness, therefore the list is being prejudice against songs that are not as deep but still complex in different ways.
For example, Skrillex may get a bad rep from music critics as being overrated, but even so there aren't very many musicians who are able to express as much raw intensity as him. This intensity just happens to be what the mainstream audience is looking for in electronic music. Even Skrillex himself said in an interview that his music is "stand up and dance" music, not "sit down and listen" music. With this being said, a vast amount of people who are able to understand and feel the intensity of a Skrillex concert may not be able to enjoy music that is complex in ways that are deep and abstract. So how can we say that the very best in deep and abstract music (aka this list) is actually any better than Skrillex's music?
For this reason I believe that a "Top 100 electronic music" list is too broad to have any accuracy. A list that has the potential to be accurate might be titled "Top 100 electronic music: songs that inspire dance" or "Top 100 electronic music: songs that are simply beautiful" or "Top 100 Electronic music: songs that innovated" etc. etc.
I also must thank you for writing this list since by looking at the list and writing this reply I've looked at music through a lens that I seldom look through
I can't even begin to assertively declare who I think is the greatest artist! There's so many incalculably great geniuses, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Rembrandt, Mozart, Michelangelo, Henry James!... what would we do without art!?
The fourth stands in marked contrast to the ninth; it expresses a completely different attitude, it's much more lively. What I like about it is that it never really settles into a singular tenor, Mahler's operation is so wonderfully diverse. Not at all like the ninth which is characterized by an incessant darkness which can be, I think--depending on one's mood--a little taxing. I'm just realizing that his fifth is still on my Favorite Music list (which, despite marginal efforts, is doing a poor job of representing my tastes; I need to build from the ground up); while I think it is a beautiful piece (the fourth movement!), I have a suspicion the third is a greater success in terms of all its units developing something more cohesive and magnificent, though I would need to spend more time with it to be certain... I've heard the eighth only once, if I recall correctly, and it struck me as something I must return to, although I sadly have yet to do so. I haven't heard the others.
Speaking of Beethoven, his String Quintet Op. 29 has been occupying a good amount of time this past week. Bellissimo!
Wow, that's a fascinating analysis. I agree with you re: Beethoven. I think there is virtually no question he is the greatest artist to have ever lived... his late works are so structurally modern, so emotionally revealing, insightful and intellectually stimulating... they are practically a completely new art form ... several of them must've seemed unapproachable in the 1800's...
Amazingly (to me), I haven't yet heard Mahler's 3rd or 4th (!!!). I want to hear all his symphonies as he seems to have the potential to be equal or maybe even surpass Beethoven in that respect. I'll be starting to go through them soon -- not necessarily all of them one after the other -- but one here, one there, soon... I've only heard his 5th (which is probably 8.8/10+) and, of course, his 9th (which may be the greatest work of art ever). How do you compare his 3rd and 4th to his 5th/9th? Anything alike?
By all accounts, Beethoven was very reluctant to publish the Große Fuge separately. It was only after much urging (along with some extra cash) that he did so. For an excellent read on the topic, check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Grosse-Fuge-Beethovens-Difficult/dp/0810...
Your description is spot on. I've heard that recording you mention, it's amazing. I'm going to revisit it soon :)
I listen to it as it's own, and find it remarkable, (perhaps a little more emotional/amazing than, say, Interstellar Overdrive -- though my opinion of Grosse Fuge's greatness vary wildly from time to time [as high as 8.8+ at one point]). Basically, it's the friggin' birth of free jazz!
Große Fuge is one of those works I feel iffy about how to listen to. Should an individual listen to it by itself or as part of his 13th quartet? From what I've read, the Große Fuge was published by itself because of it's incomprehensibility. But should we listen to it as Beethoven originally intended - as being the conclusion of his 13th?
You guys should check out his Fratres, for Violin & Piano. It's a breathtaking work. Extremely nostalgic with a sense of stillness and timelessness. It gives off a sort of feeling like trying to retrace a childhood memory and trying to preserve it in some sort of metaphysical prism. I really suck at describing it, but it's one of those very unique works that leaves you with a feeling that seems impossible to describe. Check out the recording by Kremer & Jarrett.
Have you read any of Dinesen's short stories?
I re-listened to some of their singles, and now I think I like Joy Division more: I never noticed before how powerful Dead Souls is especially! Definitely my fave JD track after Disorder. Single version of She's Lost Control is just as great as the album version too.
By "posthumous Ceremony release", you mean the New Order single?
One of the most favorite is Elena Jane Goulding known as Ellie Goulding, she is an English singer or multi-instrument. Rare people ability to achieved success in very short time. This younger became the second artist to both top the BBC’S annual sound of poll. Now fans ready for her next concerts in different places. ellie goulding concert tickets 2013 are available at ticketdove.com
DJ_1337.... Yeah about the Trance... Trance is starting to make a resurgence after a fair few years of being pretty crap...
I like John O'Callaghan, John Askew, Ashley Wallbridge, Andy Moor, Emma Hewitt vocals, Omnia & Aly n Fila... And of course old masters like Paul Oakenfold, BT & Cosmic Gate
Thanks again DJ_1337.... Yeah the Paula Abdul track alright, but again the intro explains that Pop artists' House remixes of their pop songs won't be in the list. Smalltown Boy is a Synth-Pop/New Wave track which doesn't qualify for my list, as explained in the introduction.
The Mark Simmons track is not bad... Got the original Disco/Soul track by Rene & Angela - I'll Be Good... Now that's a classic track.
As it happens Barbirolli is the only recording of the 9th that I've listened to. I see what you mean by omnipotence (Mahler: "For me 'symphony' signifies using all the means of available technique to construct a world for myself"). Perhaps "incessant darkness" was a mischaracterization, but it certainly lacks the engaging diversity and freshness of the fourth, though I think the ninth is probably better overall. I completely agree with your general descriptions of the different movements, but some of the more sluggish/repetitive stretches sometimes leave me feeling a little bored, whereas the few other works of his that I've heard don't demonstrate such a trait. I certainly don't rate the 9th as highly as you do (I think Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, Coltrane and Puccini--to name a few--did better work, which is no slight) or I once did myself, but I do think that it's one of the best pieces of music I've heard. In any case Mahler is one composer I'd like to commit a lot more time to, as it stands I'm a little shaky on my perception of him, as it has certainly shifted over the last couple of years.
I'm glad Mjongo mentioned Bruno Walter, though, he is near the top of the pile in terms of interpreters I've neglected but am dying to listen to.
Just for fun (:))--check out my latest obsession: Jussi Bjorling's aria from Eugene Onegin. Left me speechless.
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Wow, that's a statement! I'll check it out within a week. Feel free to remind me if I haven't posted about it on here within 2 weeks :)
Bruno Walter's 1961 Stereo recording of the 9th is my favorite by far, and I've heard at least ten others multiple times (the Barbirolli you linked to, two Karajans, two Bernsteins, Walter's earlier mono recording, Rattle's, Abbado's, Chailly's, and Dudumel's).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUA1A4TukRI
Yes, there are SO many amazing artists! :)
I've got to listen to the 4th SOON!
Re: Mahler's 9th ... It certainly has its share of darkness (particularly the devastating last movement) but I think much more dominant is how astoundingly dynamic it is; the multitude of emotions/changes/structures/ideas etc. For instance, the massive climaxes of its first movement, in their calamity, are simultaneously springing to life and falling apart -- the orchestra explodes in glory and surges in unison, but also fails in errors, erroneous notes/chords, confusion, frustration, struggle, before settling into serene dichotomies of beauty and sadness. The 2nd and 3rd movements compress these ideas into a generally more composed format while maintaining a tighter, more consistent progression. They lean towards their progression with a "natural order" and tense gradation, and like compositional rubik's cubes, constantly and suddenly change and swing between several orchestral formations, emotions and ideas. Within the 9th, Mahler somehow manages to encompass all life not just from within himself on a personal level, but also from a massive omnipotent perspective (such as God), and the symphony seems to have as its impetus and structural/emotional arc, the cycle (in form and content) of the universe: creation, survival/prosperity, and death.
Showing a complete mastery of the entire symphony, Barbirolli's conduction of Mahler's 9th is the best rendition I know of (maybe Karajan's too?) ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lJzL_DvVpA
Thanks for the invite to that String Quintet. Have I heard it? Don't think so... I'll check it out :)
The singles are where some of their best work lies. Especially the "Licht Und Blindheit" single with Atmosphere and Dead Souls. Or the posthumous Ceremony release (the two slightly botched live renditions of Ceremony are great as well). Or their most immediately accessible songs Transmission and Love Will Tear Us Apart.
GOSH it's been too damn long for me to know for sure... It's pretty short and tight in and of itself, though, so I dunno what to remove to make it a better-than-it-is EP.
Only English, really.
I have probably a 6-year-old's reading comprehension level in German, though.
Getting a little better at recognizing the gist of (archaic) Italian from the amount of opera I listen to/memorize though.
Update #14 (15 April) - Puzzgal stays the frontrunner and now has a 10 film advantage on mightysparks. No changes in the top 10 this week.
Seven players have an average of more than 1 film/day. I'm one of them. I saw seven films and stayed 6th.
Oh, and also you should check out some of Kenna's stuff. It probably won't make the list but it's definitely worth a listen to.
Pink Floyd and Queen not being on the list is as if they are trying to make some sort of point. Did they not watch Live Aid? Queen totally, and unexpectedly, stole the show at the biggest rock concert of all time.
Don't think anyone else has mentioned it so this may not be a popular view, but I think The Bee Gees should be on there for their writing talent if nothing else.
* Delgo 2008
* King Dick (Adults Movie)
*** more Barbie movies:
Barbie as the Princess and the Pauper 2004
Barbie and the Magic of Pegasus (2005)
The Barbie Diaries (2006)
Barbie: Mermaidia (2006)......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie_(film_series)
* Alvin and the Chipmunks 2007 + Sequel
* Bambi 2
* Brother Bear 2
* Cars 2
* Charlie Brown - 4 movies only
(the rest is 25 min specials like the great pumpkin)
* ice age 3+4
* Kong Fu Panda 2
* Lilo and Stitch 2 + Leroy and Stitch
* The True Story of Puss n Boots
* (Shrek) Puss in Boots
I think that your list is very good yet still very inaccurate. I noticed all of the top 10 albums require a very high degree of abstract thought and a fine tuned musical ear in order to enjoy them. While this list is an oasis for those who long for deep and abstract music, I don't think think it describes the very best in electronic music.
A song that is good can only hold a certain amount of complexity in specific ways. If there is too much complexity in too many ways, the song feels scrambled or overwhelming. If the song lacks complexity, then anything it tries to express will be handicapped and toned down. The songs you consider to be the very best hold their complexity in their deepness, therefore the list is being prejudice against songs that are not as deep but still complex in different ways.
For example, Skrillex may get a bad rep from music critics as being overrated, but even so there aren't very many musicians who are able to express as much raw intensity as him. This intensity just happens to be what the mainstream audience is looking for in electronic music. Even Skrillex himself said in an interview that his music is "stand up and dance" music, not "sit down and listen" music. With this being said, a vast amount of people who are able to understand and feel the intensity of a Skrillex concert may not be able to enjoy music that is complex in ways that are deep and abstract. So how can we say that the very best in deep and abstract music (aka this list) is actually any better than Skrillex's music?
For this reason I believe that a "Top 100 electronic music" list is too broad to have any accuracy. A list that has the potential to be accurate might be titled "Top 100 electronic music: songs that inspire dance" or "Top 100 electronic music: songs that are simply beautiful" or "Top 100 Electronic music: songs that innovated" etc. etc.
I also must thank you for writing this list since by looking at the list and writing this reply I've looked at music through a lens that I seldom look through
I can't even begin to assertively declare who I think is the greatest artist! There's so many incalculably great geniuses, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Rembrandt, Mozart, Michelangelo, Henry James!... what would we do without art!?
The fourth stands in marked contrast to the ninth; it expresses a completely different attitude, it's much more lively. What I like about it is that it never really settles into a singular tenor, Mahler's operation is so wonderfully diverse. Not at all like the ninth which is characterized by an incessant darkness which can be, I think--depending on one's mood--a little taxing. I'm just realizing that his fifth is still on my Favorite Music list (which, despite marginal efforts, is doing a poor job of representing my tastes; I need to build from the ground up); while I think it is a beautiful piece (the fourth movement!), I have a suspicion the third is a greater success in terms of all its units developing something more cohesive and magnificent, though I would need to spend more time with it to be certain... I've heard the eighth only once, if I recall correctly, and it struck me as something I must return to, although I sadly have yet to do so. I haven't heard the others.
Speaking of Beethoven, his String Quintet Op. 29 has been occupying a good amount of time this past week. Bellissimo!
Wow, that's a fascinating analysis. I agree with you re: Beethoven. I think there is virtually no question he is the greatest artist to have ever lived... his late works are so structurally modern, so emotionally revealing, insightful and intellectually stimulating... they are practically a completely new art form ... several of them must've seemed unapproachable in the 1800's...
Amazingly (to me), I haven't yet heard Mahler's 3rd or 4th (!!!). I want to hear all his symphonies as he seems to have the potential to be equal or maybe even surpass Beethoven in that respect. I'll be starting to go through them soon -- not necessarily all of them one after the other -- but one here, one there, soon... I've only heard his 5th (which is probably 8.8/10+) and, of course, his 9th (which may be the greatest work of art ever). How do you compare his 3rd and 4th to his 5th/9th? Anything alike?