I'll start the list since it was my idea and I should be responsible if it flops. Can't wait to see your four entries, Jim. Remember, give us a chance to identify them before you do.
Jim, you are sort of right, but not quite. The first one is THE ILIAD, the second isn't Homer but Virgil's AENEAD, and the third is Dante's DIVINE COMEDY - the first line of The Inferno.
No idea on the first one. For the second one I'm guessing one of Homer's Big Two - probably The Odyssey (I have the Fagles translations upstairs, but I don't want you to doubt my guessing skills). And I believe the third is from Dante, but I can't remember which book. I know I've read that Ellison line, but I've loaned out my Essential Ellison, so I can't look it up. I knew that would come back to haunt me.
Ok I found a couple. Are we limiting this to any specific genre?
These 2 go together:
"It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." From _Trumps of Doom_ by Roger Zelazny.
"My life had been relatively peaceful for 8 year - not counting April Thirteenths, when someone invariably tried to kill me." From _Blood of Amber_ by Roger Zelazny.
This one's ok, not great:
"We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold." From _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ by Hunter S. Thompson.
This is hilarious but long:
"This story takes place once-upon-a-time; not a real time that has come and gone, or a time that has yet to happen, or even quite a high-and-far-off (-out) time where so many stories take place; this is a time that never happened but ought to have, in one of those places that are called fabulous since, of course, they exist only in fables." From _A Baroque Fable_ by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro.
Kind of weird that in most of the writers workshops and panels I've been in they talk about grabbing the reader's attention right away but out of 50 books I only found 4 startling first lines. You should definitely try Ellison, he should have some good ones.
Great, I get $10 for each person I get to join. Just kidding. Let me know what your rec list looks like after you put in a bunch of ratings. I think it's best to put in about 100 then check recs. Then put in another 100 and see what changes. Then rate everything you have ever read in your entire life. The cool thing about it is that even if you don't use your rec list (I only use mine rarely) you can still use Alexlit to look up a book you're thinking about reading. Like let's say you're thinking about reading _A Spell for Chameleon_ by Piers Anthony. You can go to the site and see what rating it gets from your neighbors. If it says Boring/Medium you might want to read something else. If it says Really Good/Low you probably want to try it. It's usually a bit confusing at first but if you stick around you get used to it.
I would have to guess Fahrenheit 451, but that's just a guess.
After 6 months, I have finally completed my bookcase-building, room-repainting project that consumed most of my winter. Our books are finally unpacked! So if I get a moment, I'll try combing them for first lines.
Hmmm. Perhaps. I would agree that The Matrix effects were less obtrusive. But for me it's hard to separate "better integrated effects" (which should be part of the award) and "it was just a better movie" (which it was, but that shouldn't be part of the award). I would say TPM suffered more from weak pacing than from the special effects failing to hold up their end of the bargain.
What effects in The Matrix haven't been used before? I can't think of anything that wasn't a variation of other stuff I've seen.
I'm not a special effects guy, so I don't know what constitutes a revolutionary effect these days. However, the only thing I can think of that might count would be Jar Jar (annoying as he was to us grown-ups). Probably the most realistic (but not perfect) full-CGI character to date. Really, the whole movie was one big special effect, with tons of non-existent stuff floating around the set in a fairly seamless fashion. And unlike The Matrix special effects, which were always on display in the foreground, TPM effects even filled the background. TPM had CGI extras, fer cryin' out loud! Effects you don't even notice because you're too busy concentrating on the effect right in front of your face (editorial "you").
I would definitely give a "Best Concept" Oscar to The Matrix, but you've still got some convincing to do before I believe TPM didn't get robbed in the F/X department.
And I'm not even a Star Wars junkie - after all, I waited for it on tape. :)
I've just checked your 'comment history' and I see what you mean. For some reason I had the impression you had made comments on a lot of other lists.
About that quote. Here's a couple of hints: "It was a pleasure to burn" is the opening line of a fairly famous novel of the early 50s. The novel was filmed in the 60s by Francois Truffaut.
Anyone else who's reading this is invited to identify the novel, or contribute your own favorite opening line(s).
What I heard about this is that the TPM guys used the same type of effect over and over, and that it wasn't that revolutionary. In other words, more effects and maybe even more impressive looking but same old same old. Versus in The Matrix they did things that haven't been used in movies heretofore and they used many different types of effects. Personally I would give it to The Matrix due to the way the effects fit seamlessly into the storyline without feeling like center stage, an interruption, or, well, an effect.
- Jenhowel
The rhino scene was HILARIOUS. I really want to see _The Postman_ because I just read the book a couple months ago. I loved _The Gods Must be Crazy_ it's one of my parent's favorite movies.
Did you like _Rose..._ or do you like Zelazny's writing in general? I met him at a convention a few years before he died. He was a really nice guy, quiet, and not arrogant in the least.
I put the Alexlit plug in for a couple of reasons but the biggest one is that I hate when someone I don't know says, "You absolutely HAVE to read this it is the best book ever written!" It just doesn't make sense to think that you'll also love the book until you know more about a person's reading tastes. So I'm kind of saying these are my favorites but that doesn't mean that you will even like them at all. If you want real, quantitative, recommendations try Alexlit.
Haven't got to _The Rats in the Walls_ yet but I'm definitely looking forward to it. I plan on doing all Lovecraft's stuff sooner or later, and I have read all the long stuff so it shouldn't be that hard.
I always thought _Don Quixote_ was some big serious literary work so I stayed away from it, but then I saw it was on tape and thought well I am 50% Mexican, and I really should read more classics. I was totally wrong about the serious part. I laughed my ass off, through half the book. I loved the long winded conversational style of Quixote and all the creative adventures. I would suggest it to anyone, except that it's length could be rather scary to slower readers.
You know Bertie I have to confess I don't think I've checked out anyone else's lists. I'll head over to yours right now.
We were running out of room so I started a new thread. Yea it was really cool, he did a reading from some of his Merlin stuff. I read the first 5 Amber books and like them but I like his short stories better. Haven't read _Today..._ yet but I plan on reading all of his stuff sooner or later. Probably going to do _Jack of Shadows_ next. I didn't like _Lord of Light_ all that much either. I didn't understand it till someone explained to me a couple months after I read it.
Wow! you met Zelazny? I love some of his early and more science-fictional stuff - as opposed to his more fantastical stuff. For example, I really enjoyed TODAY WE CHOOSE FACES, although it's apparently not one of his most popular. It's been many a year since I read A ROSE..., but I know I gave it a big rating - I'll have to re-read it. And there are several others of his early shorter length stuff that are classics and award winners.
I have to say, though, that his award winning novel LORD OF LIGHT never held my attention beyond a couple of pages - and I've tried it thrice.
You have a weird sense of humour, Rhaam. What do you mean you haven't checked out anyone else's lists?
About that idea for a new list I mentioned above. I'm not sure I'll get around to it now, unless you and others help me build it. It was going to be called "Great Opening Lines". The idea came from your mention of Poe's THE FALL OF THE HOUSE OF USHER, which has a great opning line, as you know. I know there are lots of examples, but the only other one I could think of was, "It was a pleasure to burn." Can you identify that one?
In hind sight, I would have listed "Nothing But A Good Time", another Poison anthem that more accurately conveys my point. Namely, that most 80s hairbands were about fun and good times. I'm glad to see that MARTIN understood the point, anyway.
Don't quite know what to say about this list, except to say thanks for rounding them up from comments all over TL - and elsewhere. [And, Jim, did you notice he slipped in another promo for Alexlit? They must be paying him.] Lovecraft's best and most horrifying, imo, is THE RATS IN THE WALLS. Have you read it? Must say, Cervantes looks somewhat out of place here.
One of the stories listed here has given me the idea for a new list. You'll see what I mean.
Well, have you ever read Zelazny's _For A Breath I Tarry_ or maybe _A Rose for Eclesiastes_? _FaBIT_ is in his _Last Defender of Camelot_ collection not sure about _ARfE_. Or if you could find a copy of George R.R. Martins _Nightflyers_ that would be cool. I know you like sci-fi but I've read a lot more fantasy so I don't have that many recs.
I'll start the list since it was my idea and I should be responsible if it flops. Can't wait to see your four entries, Jim. Remember, give us a chance to identify them before you do.
Jim, you are sort of right, but not quite. The first one is THE ILIAD, the second isn't Homer but Virgil's AENEAD, and the third is Dante's DIVINE COMEDY - the first line of The Inferno.
I'll leave the Ellison as an open challenge.
Sure, Jim, we believe you. Thousands wouldn't.
That's the one. By Ray Bradbury.
'Combing' your books for first lines might be more time-consuming than you think. You might be tempted to read on...
No idea on the first one. For the second one I'm guessing one of Homer's Big Two - probably The Odyssey (I have the Fagles translations upstairs, but I don't want you to doubt my guessing skills). And I believe the third is from Dante, but I can't remember which book. I know I've read that Ellison line, but I've loaned out my Essential Ellison, so I can't look it up. I knew that would come back to haunt me.
Ok I found a couple. Are we limiting this to any specific genre?
These 2 go together:
"It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." From _Trumps of Doom_ by Roger Zelazny.
"My life had been relatively peaceful for 8 year - not counting April Thirteenths, when someone invariably tried to kill me." From _Blood of Amber_ by Roger Zelazny.
This one's ok, not great:
"We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold." From _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ by Hunter S. Thompson.
This is hilarious but long:
"This story takes place once-upon-a-time; not a real time that has come and gone, or a time that has yet to happen, or even quite a high-and-far-off (-out) time where so many stories take place; this is a time that never happened but ought to have, in one of those places that are called fabulous since, of course, they exist only in fables." From _A Baroque Fable_ by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro.
Kind of weird that in most of the writers workshops and panels I've been in they talk about grabbing the reader's attention right away but out of 50 books I only found 4 startling first lines. You should definitely try Ellison, he should have some good ones.
Great, I get $10 for each person I get to join. Just kidding. Let me know what your rec list looks like after you put in a bunch of ratings. I think it's best to put in about 100 then check recs. Then put in another 100 and see what changes. Then rate everything you have ever read in your entire life. The cool thing about it is that even if you don't use your rec list (I only use mine rarely) you can still use Alexlit to look up a book you're thinking about reading. Like let's say you're thinking about reading _A Spell for Chameleon_ by Piers Anthony. You can go to the site and see what rating it gets from your neighbors. If it says Boring/Medium you might want to read something else. If it says Really Good/Low you probably want to try it. It's usually a bit confusing at first but if you stick around you get used to it.
I trying alexlit now, and I'm really enjoying it, and I haven't even gotten past the "ratings" part.
I just checked the IMDb. I'm a good guesser. :-) It was a guess, really! I didn't look it up first!
I would have to guess Fahrenheit 451, but that's just a guess.
After 6 months, I have finally completed my bookcase-building, room-repainting project that consumed most of my winter. Our books are finally unpacked! So if I get a moment, I'll try combing them for first lines.
Hmmm. Perhaps. I would agree that The Matrix effects were less obtrusive. But for me it's hard to separate "better integrated effects" (which should be part of the award) and "it was just a better movie" (which it was, but that shouldn't be part of the award). I would say TPM suffered more from weak pacing than from the special effects failing to hold up their end of the bargain.
What effects in The Matrix haven't been used before? I can't think of anything that wasn't a variation of other stuff I've seen.
I'm not a special effects guy, so I don't know what constitutes a revolutionary effect these days. However, the only thing I can think of that might count would be Jar Jar (annoying as he was to us grown-ups). Probably the most realistic (but not perfect) full-CGI character to date. Really, the whole movie was one big special effect, with tons of non-existent stuff floating around the set in a fairly seamless fashion. And unlike The Matrix special effects, which were always on display in the foreground, TPM effects even filled the background. TPM had CGI extras, fer cryin' out loud! Effects you don't even notice because you're too busy concentrating on the effect right in front of your face (editorial "you").
I would definitely give a "Best Concept" Oscar to The Matrix, but you've still got some convincing to do before I believe TPM didn't get robbed in the F/X department.
And I'm not even a Star Wars junkie - after all, I waited for it on tape. :)
I've just checked your 'comment history' and I see what you mean. For some reason I had the impression you had made comments on a lot of other lists.
About that quote. Here's a couple of hints: "It was a pleasure to burn" is the opening line of a fairly famous novel of the early 50s. The novel was filmed in the 60s by Francois Truffaut.
Anyone else who's reading this is invited to identify the novel, or contribute your own favorite opening line(s).
What I heard about this is that the TPM guys used the same type of effect over and over, and that it wasn't that revolutionary. In other words, more effects and maybe even more impressive looking but same old same old. Versus in The Matrix they did things that haven't been used in movies heretofore and they used many different types of effects. Personally I would give it to The Matrix due to the way the effects fit seamlessly into the storyline without feeling like center stage, an interruption, or, well, an effect.
- Jenhowel
The rhino scene was HILARIOUS. I really want to see _The Postman_ because I just read the book a couple months ago. I loved _The Gods Must be Crazy_ it's one of my parent's favorite movies.
Did you like _Rose..._ or do you like Zelazny's writing in general? I met him at a convention a few years before he died. He was a really nice guy, quiet, and not arrogant in the least.
I put the Alexlit plug in for a couple of reasons but the biggest one is that I hate when someone I don't know says, "You absolutely HAVE to read this it is the best book ever written!" It just doesn't make sense to think that you'll also love the book until you know more about a person's reading tastes. So I'm kind of saying these are my favorites but that doesn't mean that you will even like them at all. If you want real, quantitative, recommendations try Alexlit.
Haven't got to _The Rats in the Walls_ yet but I'm definitely looking forward to it. I plan on doing all Lovecraft's stuff sooner or later, and I have read all the long stuff so it shouldn't be that hard.
I always thought _Don Quixote_ was some big serious literary work so I stayed away from it, but then I saw it was on tape and thought well I am 50% Mexican, and I really should read more classics. I was totally wrong about the serious part. I laughed my ass off, through half the book. I loved the long winded conversational style of Quixote and all the creative adventures. I would suggest it to anyone, except that it's length could be rather scary to slower readers.
You know Bertie I have to confess I don't think I've checked out anyone else's lists. I'll head over to yours right now.
We were running out of room so I started a new thread. Yea it was really cool, he did a reading from some of his Merlin stuff. I read the first 5 Amber books and like them but I like his short stories better. Haven't read _Today..._ yet but I plan on reading all of his stuff sooner or later. Probably going to do _Jack of Shadows_ next. I didn't like _Lord of Light_ all that much either. I didn't understand it till someone explained to me a couple months after I read it.
Well I think yours is the only other list I commented on. Right when I first got on the site.
Can't identify that story. Checked about 25-30 books and got nothing as far as first lines go. I'll keep looking.
Wow! you met Zelazny? I love some of his early and more science-fictional stuff - as opposed to his more fantastical stuff. For example, I really enjoyed TODAY WE CHOOSE FACES, although it's apparently not one of his most popular. It's been many a year since I read A ROSE..., but I know I gave it a big rating - I'll have to re-read it. And there are several others of his early shorter length stuff that are classics and award winners.
I have to say, though, that his award winning novel LORD OF LIGHT never held my attention beyond a couple of pages - and I've tried it thrice.
You have a weird sense of humour, Rhaam. What do you mean you haven't checked out anyone else's lists?
About that idea for a new list I mentioned above. I'm not sure I'll get around to it now, unless you and others help me build it. It was going to be called "Great Opening Lines". The idea came from your mention of Poe's THE FALL OF THE HOUSE OF USHER, which has a great opning line, as you know. I know there are lots of examples, but the only other one I could think of was, "It was a pleasure to burn." Can you identify that one?
In hind sight, I would have listed "Nothing But A Good Time", another Poison anthem that more accurately conveys my point. Namely, that most 80s hairbands were about fun and good times. I'm glad to see that MARTIN understood the point, anyway.
I have not seen a funnier movie than The Party with Peter Sellers. Try it , you'll like it!
Don't quite know what to say about this list, except to say thanks for rounding them up from comments all over TL - and elsewhere. [And, Jim, did you notice he slipped in another promo for Alexlit? They must be paying him.] Lovecraft's best and most horrifying, imo, is THE RATS IN THE WALLS. Have you read it? Must say, Cervantes looks somewhat out of place here.
One of the stories listed here has given me the idea for a new list. You'll see what I mean.
Well, have you ever read Zelazny's _For A Breath I Tarry_ or maybe _A Rose for Eclesiastes_? _FaBIT_ is in his _Last Defender of Camelot_ collection not sure about _ARfE_. Or if you could find a copy of George R.R. Martins _Nightflyers_ that would be cool. I know you like sci-fi but I've read a lot more fantasy so I don't have that many recs.
Yup! You hit the nail on the head. Relevent music doesn't always have to have a social conscience, either.