America In Ten Movies

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The challenge: America in Ten Movies. Cinemarati, Flickhead respond. « via GreenCine »

Jim, at the risk of appearing self-promoting, perhaps these ten movies might be relevant.

:-) Aren't we all self-promoting?

I think that list is helpful for describing America culturally.

Wait, I thought this was "America in Ten Movies", not "American Ideals in Ten Movies". Perhaps someone who is not American would like to submit a list for comparison, to see how others perceive the USA? I'm opting not to create one, for my own reasons.

The original challenge calls for the list of films to "illustrate something unique about American values or character or 'the American experience'.”

Ideals fall under the heading of values and character. I define "character" as not just a set of features, but also as a quality of moral strength.

I nominate Critico.
Besides, isn't America trying to swamp your culture?

Thank you, but i don't think i could do it, i feel i haven't seen enough movies to do the exercise, nor am i perceptive enough to do it.

The Rambo/Red Dawn thing was a joke, i haven't seen any of those movies, but know about their subject matter.

I think America already swamped my culture, almost all the movies shown here are americans, and many of the tv shows too.

Now Playing: Orishas: Ven y Calla.

Whether they're trying or no, it is undeniable that one of the ways Canadians define themselves is "not American". I liken it to the New Zealander tendency to distance themselves from Australians.

We have loads of Australians, Brits, and I know of at least one Luxembourgian and one Belgian on this site, who are all well-versed in American film. Critico or any of you others want to step forward?

The last time I dealt with loaded Australians I woke up in Perth and my stubby was gone.

High Noon
12 Angry Men
Mr Smith Goes to Washington
Gone With The Wind
Woodstock: 3 Days of Peace and Music
Avalon
Louisiana Story
In the Heat of the Night
Mean Streets
All the President’s Men

Wow, good one! I've seen most of these, but I've never even heard of Louisiana Story.

Thanks.

It's on the list of 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die.

I agree on 12 Angry men, i was going to add it to my list.

What about Rambo or Red Dawn? ;)

Rambo has nothing to do with the ideals upon which America was founded. Red Dawn maybe, but it's not a very good movie.

I resent the utterance that red dawn isn't a very good movie, it's a great movie, but I think it's wrong for this sort of list, it's just as anti-american ideals as it is pro-american ideals... you have a group of rebels that are heroic americans fighting for their country and survival yet are the type of resistance that America usually villain-ize and hate... it might be a good way of looking at things from the other side, but otherwise it's a terrible choice but a great movie nevertheless.

I fully support "heroic americans fighting for their country and survival" through armed resistance.

I took the exercise to be explaining America to someone from another country/culture. If you think American ideals explain America then RosieCotton's list is awesome (having seen neither Mean St.s nor LA Story.)

Personally I think that "American" ideals go a long way in explaining the United States. Perhaps that should be "American ideals"... or American "ideals." Nothing can explain "American Idol."

(Having never seen Red Dawn ) I think that one of the singular, amazing, endearing, and confusing character traits of America is its ability to act in contradiction to its professed ideals. Let's say, just for one example, United States support for Pedro Carmona.

Sometimes America's ideals themselves are in conflict with each other. Just from your description of Red Dawn it seems to me that Critico might be quite perceptive.

Your opinion has encouraged me to watch Red Dawn or, at the least, stop avoiding it so assiduously. I must confess that I dislike most things American from the mid-80s.

At this point I feel I must state for the record that I do love "American ideals"... which include freedom of utterance. Nothing can make me watch "American Idol."

Which leaves me with one question: How do you explain Patrick Swayze to the Hadza?

One of the things I find interesting about this topic (and discussion) is how I feel like America (or any country) can be defined in many different ways:

1. America as it is.

2. America as it sees itself.

3. America as others see it.

4. America as it wishes it were (closely tied—perhaps the same as—number 2).

If I tried to create such a list, I'd try to balance all four (which is probably why I haven't tackled it yet, as it makes my head spin just thinking about it). I don't think I'd put Rambo or Red Dawn on the list, but both can be wedged into at least a couple of the angles above.

I tried to balance it out a lot like the 4 you listed, but I tried to look at it more as the people in america. number 1 would be Americans as they are... and so on... I think America is as the people who live there. most of the characters in the movies I chose are characters certain different types of people wish they were, others are characters people really are, and others are characters people might see themselves as. I do have to say I was completely sexist in my choices... out of 30 important american-illustrating characters in the films I chose there might be 2 or 3 woman... but I like to think most(if not all) of the characters in the films I chose represent a certain(and many different) american ways of life. Then again half of them are westerns and sports movies so I guess everyone's list is going to focus on something(what's more american than westerns and sports? don't answer that, but you get my point)

You've got baseball in there, so now you just need a movie about apple pie. On second thought, scratch that...

I agreed it would make a nice selection to this list for the reason of the contradiction, but soley(?) for the "ideals" and I think it misses the point... thats all... and here's to the freedom of utterance! I know I excersice it daily.

of all american ideals, love of patrick swayze may be the hardest to explain.

That's very funny.

Now I have the image in my head of someone in the Rift Valley holding a pointer and saying, "This is Patrick Swayze... and this is Chris Farley." Which just goes to show you that the language of humour is universal.

Rambo may not represent ideals Americans admit to striving for, but that film, and the scads of others like it, exist for a reason. There's a market for it, and Americans make up the bulk of that consumer body. Clearly, there was something about a big tough gun-toting hero that appealed to Americans. I think it has as much a right to appear on lists such as these as the ones that embody the more admirable American ideals.

I'm not trying to pick a fight (fights?) with either of you but I agree and disagree and am unsure but interested... okay, maybe "confused" is the word I'm looking for.

I think that some (many?) Americans would admit to striving for Rambo-ideals. A muscular (literally and figuratively) foreign policy, the lone wolf fighting a corrupt system, a belief that America lost in Vietnam because they were mismanaged and weren't allowed to win, faith in American exceptionalism and the ability to solve problems with guns.

There's probably more. Oh yeah, the totally unfounded conviction that there are camps of American POWs hidden in southeast Asia. There's still probably more.

There are two quotes that I remember(ed.) "Murdock, I'm coming to get you!" and the more relevant, "Do we get to win this time?" Even Stripes was able to admit that America is "10 and 1."

The inability to see that Vietnam was an utter and total defeat is, to my mind, very American. It has led the United States to... where it is today. Which leads me to the quote which I hadn't remembered until I saw it on the IMDB quote page: "Mission... accomplished."

As for RosieCotton's list. (Let me just pause here to say... nice!) I have a tough time seeing that all of them illustrated "ideals upon which America was founded." I admit it might not have been the goal (and I don't think it was the goal of the exercise... I love exercise. And fresh air.) There is no way that the founding fathers could have imagined Woodstock: 3 Days of Peace and Music nor the twenty-fifth anniversary concert.

I do think that Gone With the Wind is sort of rooted in the "vision" of the founding fathers but the idea of a noble Southern "Lost Cause" is totally new. Well, it's seven score years old now but it's not originalist.

Which brings up the question: Does In the Heat of the Night have anything to do with the founding ideals of America? I would argue: No... unless Sidney Poitier is 3/5 of a detective and he stays in jail. But that is the beauty and the never-ending promise of America. The ability to re-invent oneself and one's history.

Which brings us back to Rambo... I think.

I see my list as being more idealistic and perhaps romantic in tone, and Rambo is not consistent with that. When I think of Rambo, I think of lawlessness, imperialism, and vigilantism, none of which is an American ideal. When I use the word ideal, I hope you know I mean things to strive for, not things as they are.

The Founding Fathers envisioned freedom for everyone. They saw diversity and plurality as our greatest strength. They gave their lives for freedom of speech, freedom of expression. The rule of law was a revolutionary idea. They were anti-imperialistic. It's because of these ideals that something like Woodstock could take place in America.

I think you misunderstand GWTW. It's not about the antebellum good old days as a superficial reading might indicate. It's about the struggle for the survival of the union and how individual Americans had to adapt to a changing country with courage and ingenuity.

In the Heat of the Night is a microcosm of the civil rights movement, about the individual American, the sheriff, having to grow and change. The sheriff has to bring himself into conformity with the FF's ideals of equality and rationality.

Love the idea, wanted to hang on to my list... so Check It Out

Very cool, I guess I need to see Rudy, Ride the High Country, and Easy Rider.

Oh i don't know, and as a foreigner maybe i shouldn'tt give an opinion, but i think any list should include Do The Right Thing, and The Godfather or Goodfellas.
Moscow on the Hudson, could explain the Immigrants view of the American Dream, but The Godfather takes care of that too.

I sorta think that The Godfather movies did more to make (or create) myths than it did to illuminate them.

You're absolutely right about Do the Right Thing.

I'd be interested in what foreign movies (or all movies) would explain America to outsiders.

I'm surprised at complaints that ten movies are not enough. Three movies, carefully chosen, would be ample to explain any culture. The first of my three would be Midnight Cowboy , then L.A. Confidential , then It's a Wonderful Life .

Hm, make that "three movies carefully chosen *and* thoroughly analyzed".

That's impossible. But...

Blazing Saddles
Casablanca
The Deer Hunter
Do the Right Thing
Kansas City
The Muppet Movie
On the Town
Saturday Night Fever
Silkwood
To Kill a Mockingbird

...and it's almost impossible not to mention some regretful/shameful cuts. But I assume that there's a good reason for a ten title limit when "you can only use ten movies to do it."

I will say that I really like Campaspe's choices. Flickhead's decisions are just plain bizarre... although I'm in complete political/philosophical agreement. As for Sheila's list, I must say that I never realized that there were so many white people in America.

Nice. But Casablanca?

Casablanca is the best movie ever made about Jewish flight during the Holocaust. The displaced narrative about refugees and Rick's conversion from isolationist to full participant in World War II is truly and, yes, nobly American.

Richard Blaine moves from being a man who says, "I stick my neck out for nobody" to someone committed to fight Germany and the Nazis. And he gives up the girl. It is the best of America in the second half of the 20th century.

Rick is first seen signing a check and playing chess... alone. Before he even says a word he nods silently to Abdul to approve of those entering the gambling room. A representative of the Deutschebank is excluded even as a cut-rate parasite is allowed in.

Later, with another nod, Rick will join the effort against the Nazis and worldwide Fascism. He will leave behind the matter of writing checks and making strategy on his own.

Rick oversees a multi-cultural staff of those who resist and flee from the Nazis. Norwegians, Bulgarians, Czechs, Nederlanders, Russians, the French and refugees are all explicitly mentioned within Rick's Café Americain. Rick's best friend, Sam, is an equal in terms of their relationship to the outside world. But Sam still calls Rick "Boss" and it is Rick who says that, "I don't buy or sell human beings."

(I think that) People forget how isolationist America was prior entering World War II. "I'm not interested in politics. The problems of the world aren’t my problem. I’m a saloon keeper." And then with a nod Rick joins the noble, desperate struggle.

The Germans in the bar are at Sam's piano singing 'Die Wacht am Rhein' when Victor Laszlo tells the band to "Play the 'Marseillaise'! Play it!" The musicians glance at Rick, who nods. The anthem swells throughout the room as the trumpet starts and the people rise to their feet.

The Germans are drowned out by the impassioned patrons. It is highly significant that the music is followed by cries of "Vive La France! Vive la democracie!" Casablanca is the perfect displaced metaphor for the United States and democracy. The majority of actors in that scene were recent émigrés having fled Hitler themselves. If that scene doesn't give you the chills... then I cannot understand how.

Rick has gone from someone who doesn't want to know the details of Carl and Laszlo's attendance at a Resistance meeting to someone who will shoot Major Strasser. Laszlo's last words to Rick are, "Welcome back to the fight. This time I know our side will win."

All of this and more is why Casablanca still resonates and always will in the American psyche. It is how the United States thinks of itself and what it wishes to be. A cynical hard-bitten realist exterior surrounding an idealistic and sentamentalist core. Inarguably the best movie ever made.

And he gives up the girl.

Wow, thanks! I'm sold.