Greatest Albums Extended List [rated 7.8/10+] (in progress)
Submitted by AfterHours on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 06:31
Tags:
- 9.5/10
- The Black Saint & The Sinner Lady-Charles Mingus (1963)
- 9.4/10
- Trout Mask Replica-Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band (1969)
- Escalator Over The Hill-Carla Bley (1971)
- 9.3/10
- Rock Bottom-Robert Wyatt (1974)
- A Love Supreme-John Coltrane (1964)
- Unit Structures-Cecil Taylor (1966)
- Faust-Faust (1971)
- 9.2/10
- The Velvet Underground & Nico-The Velvet Underground (1967)
- Saxophone Improvisations, Series F-Anthony Braxton (1972)
- The Doors-The Doors (1967)
- Ascension-John Coltrane (1965)
- The Modern Dance-Pere Ubu (1978)
- Twin Infinitives-Royal Trux (1990)
- 9.1/10
- Seeds, Visions & Counterpoint-Ivo Perelman (1996)
- Hosianna Mantra-Popol Vuh (1973)
- Improvisie-Paul Bley (1971)
- Lorca-Tim Buckley (1970)
- The Jazz Composer's Orchestra-Michael Mantler (1968)
- Parable of Arable Land-Red Crayola (1967)
- 9.0/10
- Desertshore-Nico (1970)
- Spiritual Unity-Albert Ayler (1964)
- Streams-Sam Rivers (1973)
- Dolmen Music-Meredith Monk (1981)
- For Alto-Anthony Braxton (1968)
- Irrlicht-Klaus Schulze (1972)
- Atlantis-Sun Ra (1967)
- Afternoon of a Georgia Faun-Marion Brown (1970)
- 8.9/10
- Bitches Brew-Miles Davis (1969)
- Blonde On Blonde-Bob Dylan (1966)
- Nail-Foetus (1985)
- Astral Weeks-Van Morrison (1968)
- Art & Aviation-Jane Ira Bloom (1992)
- Y-The Pop Group (1979)
- Crystals-Sam Rivers (1974)
- Diamanda Galas-Diamanda Galas (1984)
- Slow, Deep & Hard-Type O Negative (1991)
- Cobra-John Zorn (1986)
- Lullaby Land-Vampire Rodents (1993)
- Zen Arcade-Husker Du (1984)
- 8.8/10
- Lady of the Mirrors-Anthony Davis (1980)
- Third-Soft Machine (1970)
- Epitaph-Charles Mingus (1962)
- Free Jazz-Ornette Coleman (1960)
- Even the Sounds Shine-Myra Melford (1994)
- Yerself Is Steam-Mercury Rev (1991)
- Well Oiled-Hash Jar Tempo (1997)
- Spirit of Eden-Talk Talk (1988)
- White Light/White Heat-The Velvet Underground (1967)
- 8.7/10
- Kick Out The Jams-MC5 (1967)
- The Downward Spiral-Nine Inch Nails (1994)
- 8.6/10
- Loveless-My Bloody Valentine (1991)
- Third Ear Band-Third Ear Band (1970)
- Starsailor-Tim Buckley (1970)
- 8.5/10
- Litanies of Satan-Diamanda Galas (1982)
- Psychic...Powerless...Another Man's Sac-Butthole Surfers (1984)
- Repeater-Fugazi (1991)
- Absolutely Free-Frank Zappa (1967)
- Silent Tongues-Cecil Taylor (1974)
- Double Nickels on the Dime-Minutemen (1984)
- Spiderland-Slint (1991)
- The Piper at the Gates of Dawn-Pink Floyd (1967)
- Geek the Girl-Lisa Germano (1994)
- 8.4/10
- Half Machine Lip Moves-Chrome (1979)
- Atomizer-Big Black (1986)
- The Ascension-Glenn Branca (1981)
- Karma-Pharoah Sanders (1969)
- Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh-Magma (1973)
- Fare Forward Voyagers-John Fahey (1973)
- Cantos I-IV-Franz Koglmann (1992)
- From Her To Eternity-Nick Cave (1984)
- Not Available-Residents (1974)
- Radio Gnome Invisible Part 1: Flying Teapot-Gong (1973)
- Cosmic Interception-Von Lmo (1994)
- Have One on Me-Joanna Newsom (2010)
- 8.3/10
- Songs of Leonard Cohen-Leonard Cohen (1968)
- Fontanelle-Babes In Toyland (1992)
- A Rainbow in Curved Air-Terry Riley (1968)
- The Survivor's Suite-Keith Jarrett (1976)
- Future Days-Can (1973)
- Neu!-Neu! (1972)
- Suicide-Suicide (1977)
- Pavilion of Dreams-Harold Budd (1978)
- Dreamtime Return-Steve Roach (1988)
- 8.2/10
- Daydream Nation-Sonic Youth (1988)
- Electric Ladyland-Jimi Hendrix (1968)
- Mother of all Saints-Thinking Fellers Union (1992)
- Yeti-Amon Duul II (1970)
- Meet the Residents-Residents (1974)
- Safe As Milk-Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band (1967)
- Radio Ethiopia-Patti Smith (1976)
- Ys-Joanna Newsom (2006)
- In the Court of the Crimson King-King Crimson (1969)
- 8.1/10
- The Firstborn is Dead-Nick Cave (1985)
- Valentyne Suite-Colosseum (1969)
- The Magic City-Sun Ra (1965)
- Volunteers-The Jefferson Airplane (1969)
- The Shape of Jazz to Come-Ornette Coleman (1959)
- City of Glass-Stan Kenton (1951)
- Kind of Blue-Miles Davis (1959)
- Happy Sad-Tim Buckley (1968)
- Original Sin-Pandora's Box (1989)
- Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables-Dead Kennedy's (1980)
- Consumer Revolt-Cop Shoot Cop (1990)
- Tago Mago-Can (1971)
- In Den Garten Pharoahs-Popol Vuh (1972)
- Remnants of a Deeper Purity-Black Tape For A Blue Girl (1996)
- Children of God-Swans (1987)
- Telepathic Surgery-The Flaming Lips (1989)
- 8.0/10
- Goat-Jesus Lizard (1991)
- Ladybird-Shit & Shine (2005)
- La Novia-Acid Mothers Temple (2000)
- A Saucerful of Secrets-Pink Floyd (1968)
- Marquee Moon-Television (1977)
- Perfect From Now On-Built To Spill (1997)
- The Days of Wine & Roses-Dream Syndicate (1982)
- New York Eye & Ear Control-Albert Ayler (1964)
- New Day Rising-Husker Du (1985)
- Frances the Mute-The Mars Volta (2005)
- The Good Son-Nick Cave (1990)
- Good-Morphine (1992)
- Fire of Love-Gun Club (1981)
- Are You Experienced?-Jimi Hendrix (1967)
- The River-Bruce Springsteen (1980)
- Cyclops Nuclear Submarine Captain-Dogbowl (1991)
- Dummy-Portishead (1994)
- Novus Magnificat-Constance Demby (1986)
- Dream Theory in Malaya-Jon Hassell (1981)
- A Genuine Tong Funeral-Carla Bley/Gary Burton (1967)
- Out To Lunch-Eric Dolphy (1964)
- Cyborg-Klaus Schulze (1973)
- 7.9/10
- Bad Moon Rising-Sonic Youth (1985)
- Freak Out!-Frank Zappa (1966)
- New Picnic Time-Pere Ubu (1979)
- Surfer Rosa-Pixies (1988)
- Songs the Lord Taught Us-Cramps (1980)
- Exile On Main Street-The Rolling Stones (1972)
- Uncle Meat-Frank Zappa (1969)
- Passion-Peter Gabriel (1989)
- A Picture of Nectar-Phish (1992)
- Learning To Cope With Cowardice-Mark Stewart (1983)
- Highway 61 Revisited-Bob Dylan (1965)
- Weasels Ripped My Flesh-Frank Zappa (1970)
- Appetite For Destruction-Guns N' Roses (1988)
- Brilliant Corners-Thelonious Monk (1956)
- Dimensions & Extensions-Sam Rivers (1967)
- Tubular Bells-Mike Oldfield (1973)
- Millions Now Living Will Never Die-Tortoise (1996)
- Mundus Subterraneus-Lightwave (1995)
- Vernal Equinox-Jon Hassell (1977)
- Violent Femmes-Violent Femmes (1983)
- Tanz Der Lemminge-Amon Duul II (1971)
- Close to the Edge-Yes (1972)
- 7.8/10
- Roxy Music-Roxy Music (1972)
- Da Capo-Love (1967)
- Strange Days-The Doors (1968)
- Les Stances A Sophie-Art Ensemble of Chicago (1970)
- For How Much Longer Do We Tolerate Mass Murder?-The Pop Group (1980)
- The Marble Index-Nico (1969)
- United States of America-United States of America (1968)
- The Art of Walking-Pere Ubu (1980)
- The Stooges-The Stooges (1969)
- Yes-Morphine (1995)
- The End of an Ear-Robert Wyatt (1970)
- Blue-Joni Mitchell (1971)
- Music For Airports-Brian Eno (1978)
- Bricolage-Amon Tobin (1997)
- Isn't Anything-My Bloody Valentine (1988)
- Pawn Hearts-Van Der Graaf Generator (1971)
- Sound-Roscoe Mitchell (1966)
- Boces-Mercury Rev (1993)
- Faust IV-Faust (1973)
- Disappeared-Spring Heel Jack (2000)
- Alchemy-Third Ear Band (1969)
Author Comments:
ALBUM RATINGS SCALE
0.0-4.5 NOT WORTH LISTENING TO
5.0 MEDIOCRE
6.0 QUITE GOOD
7.0 VERY GOOD
7.5 AMAZING
8.0 EXTRAORDINARY
8.5 ASTONISHING
9.0 MASTERPIECE
9.5 SUPREME MASTERPIECE
10 ULTIMATE MASTERPIECE
Just want to say thanks for turning me onto the brilliant Double Nickels on the Dime, and I was wondering if anything else they did is any good?
Also, the first half of In An Aeroplane Over the Sea has hit me hard. What do you think is the best song on the album?
Just want to say thanks for turning me onto the brilliant Double Nickels on the Dime, and I was wondering if anything else they did is any good?
You're welcome. Unfortunately I haven't heard any of their other albums yet, so I really don't know, but according to Scaruffi they have two other superb albums, but Double Nickels is their only "masterpiece":
Punch Line 7/10
What Makes A Man Start Fires 7/10
Also, the first half of In An Aeroplane Over the Sea has hit me hard. What do you think is the best song on the album?
Not surprising at all. For years that album was in my top 5 of all time. As far as pop albums go, I think it is an absolute masterpiece and at or near the top of the heap. I think the best song is probably #8 Oh Comely or #4 Two Headed Boy. Both are as emotionally devastating as pop/folk/indie music ever gets. The last track Two Headed Boy Pt. 2 and possibly track #6 Holland 1945 deserve consideration as well, but really they're all superb. I'm glad you're getting into it. I love that album. ( :
I'm grabbing Punch Line now, so I'll tell you how it goes.
If the second half of In An Aeroplane Over The Sea is better then the first, I'll be very happy.
I'm grabbing Punch Line now, so I'll tell you how it goes.
Please do.
If the second half of In An Aeroplane Over The Sea is better then the first, I'll be very happy.
Tough call. They're about equal.
The Minutemen - What Makes A Man Start Fires? (SST) 83
The Minutemen - Buzz Or Howl Under The Influence Of Heat (SST) 83
These aren't quite on the level of Double Nickels, but certainly are great albums worth hearing.
Just another recommendation, Orbital II by Orbital. Brilliant rave/trance/techno, that Scaruffi himself gave an 8. Should be quite cheap too.
I found it much better then In the Court of the Crimson King, which was inconsistent (I mean, Moonchild is 10 minutes too long).
Thanks man! I'll check it out in the near future. I'll be starting on all his 8's shortly.
I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who notices an inconsistency between this list and the decade lists notifies me. At times it can be difficult to keep them all accurate.
Nice list, but does it really make any sense to use a scale of 10 if you think no one will ever achieve a 10? Do you think you can suggest ways, say, Beethoven's 9th can be improved? It seems you're fantasizing about the sort of perfection no human is capable of. I really don't see art and music being about perfection. I can name over 100 albums that are perfect enough. There may be certain flaws, but no amount of tinkering would likely improve them overall.
Nice list, but does it really make any sense to use a scale of 10 if you think no one will ever achieve a 10?
Yes, because then it tells you how close to "total perfection" the albums are.
Do you think you can suggest ways, say, Beethoven's 9th can be improved?
I could though I couldn't hope to achieve it or compose it myself. Beethoven's 9th, probably a high 9.5/10 is a nearly invincible achievement in itself. It's probably blasphemous to say so, but I think the second movement is slightly too repetitive and could've been shortened or varied a bit more, though it's still awesome for what it is. We're just talking about the differences between a 9.5 and a 10 here not real weaknesses. There's other minor points, but I won't go into them as it's stupid to criticize what is possibly the greatest musical work in the history of mankind.
It seems you're fantasizing about the sort of perfection no human is capable of.
So far you are probably right, as it has never happened that I'm aware of. But I think it is possible. I can imagine it, so that indicates that if I had the technical skill I could possibly produce it.
I really don't see art and music being about perfection. I can name over 100 albums that are perfect enough. There may be certain flaws, but no amount of tinkering would likely improve them overall.
It's always good to strive for greatness, but I think getting too wrapped up in the idea of "perfection" may hinder your enjoyment of a lot of music.
You seem to be devouring a lot of music in a good way. I'd just hate to see you get less out of certain albums because of lack of perceived perfection. I often get obsessed with albums that don't even make my top 1000, because something about them strikes a chord with me at the time.
I recommended a few albums in your Greatest of All Time list, but it's buried under a remark about Buckley's Starsailor.
It's always good to strive for greatness, but I think getting too wrapped up in the idea of "perfection" may hinder your enjoyment of a lot of music.
It just puts it into perspective. A 6/10 is still enjoyable. I just can't think of any reason to listen to one very much if I have the option of over a hundred vastly superior 8/10+ albums, and it's impossible to be tired of all of them at once. There's always at least a dozen I am really itching to hear on a daily/weekly basis.
You seem to be devouring a lot of music in a good way. I'd just hate to see you get less out of certain albums because of lack of perceived perfection.
This doesn't happen simply because I listen to them then rate them. And I rate them based on how amazing they are to me, so I don't see how I would be missing something. I don't go into it with preconceived notions. If it is powerful and amazing to me it will rate high. If it's trivial it won't. You see, the rating itself is based purely on my response to the album.
I often get obsessed with albums that don't even make my top 1000, because something about them strikes a chord with me at the time.
You've got me on this one. If I were obsessed with an album it would certainly be in my top 1000, and almost surely my top 100 as well.
There's the rub, man. There are thousands of great albums. Forgive me if I'm way off, but I'd guess you're no older than early 20s? Keep listening at this rate for another 20 years, you'll see. I've rated nearly 8,000 albums since 1949 as great, and over 3,000 of those as really great. And every year I only hear just over 1% of all albums released.
You're not too far off. I'm 28. I've heard thousands of albums I think are great, just not 8/10. I think my 8/10 and above is more exclusive than most. Anything 6/10+ would be more than worth it to most people I've talked to. I'm just a spoiled music brat so I rarely bother with anything below an 8/10 anymore, only occasionally listening to albums in the 7-7.75 range, and almost never anything lower.
That's kind of what I was thinking of when I said you could be missing out on some great music. However, not everyone spends 6-12 hours a day listening to music, heh.
"I've rated nearly 8,000 albums since 1949 as great"
Maybe you're too easily impressed?
Too easily for what? There's nothing wrong with actually being able to enjoy a wide variety. Maybe he listens to a lot of music and is old enough to have listened to a wider variety than any of us? I've seen his top 1000 list and there's no real dubious choices there. It depends on what you're looking for - there are few albums that are totally new and push the envelope. Even fewer of these albums are actually any good. On the flip side, I know a band like Datarock is just an updated version of Devo or Talking Heads, and therefore really aren't original in any way, but I find myself wanting to listen to them a lot, simply because it's an album full of good songs. And there's plenty of those.
Yes, because then it tells you how close to "total perfection" the albums are.
Exactly what is perfection, then? Could you possibly imagine a perfect piece of music? Perfection is an absolute; music is subjective. There is no such thing as an album so good that nothing can top it. Thus, the 10/10 album cannot exist. So you can rate 9.9/10, but 10/10 can't exist, so nothing can be better than the 9.9/10, which means that 9.9 can't exist either. Suddenly you find that now nothing can be rated on that scale. So in order for your scale to work you have to basically accept that you're rating albums based on a concept that doesn't exist.
You might find that making music is tougher than you think. I recall you saying that you could imagine Beatles-quality songs in your head without any effort. If you really have the capacity to imagine something that's 10/10, greater than Beethoven's 9th, you're doing humanity a great disservice by not recording it!
The concept exists because I can describe it. That's proof that it could be. It just hasn't been accomplished. The ratings simply reflect how close to accomplishing this these various albums are.
Lots of people could imagine their ideal music work if they really thought about it. But I didn't say I could play or compose it. I am an amateur musician. Plus a 10 is only a 10 to me. Doesn't mean it would be a 10 to humanity.
The question then is how WOULD you describe it? A freeform symphony played in 6/11 time with a psychotic and off-key transgender vocalist? Then what do you do if something surpasses that 10/10 work? I don't think I could imagine my ideal musical work - it would have to combine all the genres that I like, and that would be a mess.
This comment is awesome. Bravo, sir.
A freeform symphony played in 6/11 time with a psychotic and off-key transgender vocalist
LOL. Precisely
Something like the last 13 minutes of Satz Ebene from Schulze's Irrlicht backing the most intense choral portions of Verdi's Dies Irae (from his Requiem Mass), with a lone Tim Buckley leading and withdrawing, weaving, careening in and out of it, alternating between the infinite sighs of Lorca and the howls and cries of Gypsy Woman, with Cecil Taylor filling in on keyboards with a hurricane of wild abandon, and John Coltrane shadowing Buckley with his sax a la the spiritual intensity of A Love Supreme's Pursuance only with held, drawn-out, focused and constricted, breathtaking lines, mixed between sheets of sudden frenzy (during the Gypsy Woman portions of Buckley's vocals) with his drummer backing him with collapsing frills and cymbals and martial drumrolls. As the work goes on it splits into two separate entities each coming out of a separate channel, in the other a heartbreaking violin solo slowly bleeding (as in the last half of Tabula Rasa), with snapping, whiplike explosions boomeranging to and fro at each rhythmic pulse of the music already occuring in the first speaker. Then the second one transforms gradually into the most overwhelming portions of Beethoven's Ode to Joy just as the first channel reaches a series of unrelenting peaks.
Yep, that sounds about like a 10 to me.
Sounds like quite an entertaining mess ;)
Funny I read this just as I was listening to the last 13 minutes of Satz Ebene...weird isn't it? I was pretty turned off by Irrlicht at first but have been discovering some early electronic music (stuff like Cochin Moon) and it sort of reminded me to listen again this week. I can see what the big deal is but I don't know if I'll ever really 'love' it even after listening to it every day this week. For reference, I listened to this 17 times this week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wqfcwgT0Ds
...and to this about 7,000 times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYTqYVHS1lo
It haunts my dreams.
Lol I would love to read Scaruffi's review of why this is a masterpiece. I can imagine it now "the vocals and individual layers of the song are dreadful but come come together to form the definitive masterpiece track of 2005". I wonder if he rates the video as one of the best shorts of the year.
Yea, I just listened to it again and I just can't fathom it as a masterpiece.
Good to see some electronic stuff make its way onto the list, like Dummy and Music for Airports.
Yea, I love those albums. Thanks.
And have you heard Zappa's Absolutely Free?
Not yet. But I definitely will. Eventually I'll go through all the Scaruffi rated 8/10's and then maybe the 7's & 7.5's. Lately my focus has been on classical though...
Uncle Meat dropped?
In position, but not at all in how great I think it is. It's just been more accurately placed. It's no greater or worse to me than it was yesterday. Sometimes I just listen to an album and realize where it should've been all along. It's thisclose to a 9/10. You have to be a total music nerd to decipher a .1 difference between albums, but it can be seen and felt with enough familiarity.
I understand completely, I've felt that way about some of my placements in the past.
Have you ever thought about doing a 7.0+ list before? Personally, I would love to see something like this. Of course, I realise that your 8+ list is still in progress and that you're also working on classical & other lists, but in any case, what is the likelihood of a 7+ list appearing?
I will do it eventually so the likelihood is for sure, but it is not in the very near future. I want to complete these other ones first (or well on their way to completion). But yes, 7+, or at least 7.5+ is the eventual goal.
How about a list of the worst albums ever? XD
Why?
I don't see any point in spending time "tracking down" the worst albums. And Im not interested in sharing music (any art) I think is "bad". My purpose isn't to be critical of art, but to share what I've found to be great about it. Every now and then someone tries one of my recommendations out and gets blown away (and sometimes changes their entire concept of what they thought they could experience from an album/film), and it's kinda cool to have a hand in passing on that experience. Of course, the artist is far and away the main one to thank. I'm just a guy who's taken the time to go through the discovery process. And then there's someone like Scaruffi who has spent literally decades doing so.
LOL Just kidding, that's all.
I see your point. And I sometimes disagree with some standard "worst album" choices, e. g. Metal Machine Music, Philosophy of the World, etc.
Yea, me too
And I didn't even mention standard "worst song choices" like Revolution 9.
Hey, I just noticed you have rated Loveless only an 8.5?
BTW, recently another guy who likes most of the Scaruffi choices (even though he has a more varied list) listened to Doc at the Radar Station at my recommendation and said that this was the first time in 30 years he had listened to it and he was blown away by it. It's now one of his favorite albums. I thought that was awesome.
Oh, and how would you rate the following? (These are albums rated 7/10 by Scaruffi, and 9.5 by me)
Metal Machine Music
Oar
1/2 Gentlemen/Not Beasts
re: Loveless an 8.5? Yes, it has to be equal to or better than Pharoah Sanders' Karma to make it onto my 9/10 list, and it's never quite been there for me. Not far off though, so maybe some day? (note: it once was a 9/10, about 6 yrs ago)
re: Doc at the Radar Station... I'm sure I'll listen to it one of these days :)
re: Metal Machine Music... it's been 6+ years. I remember thinking 7.5 at the time, but who knows if I returned to it today.
re: Oar and 1/2 Gentlemen/Not Beasts... don't think I've heard them...
Alright.
I thought at first (when I came on Listology) that, since you love TMR so much, you've probably heard most of the other Beefheart records too.
Haha, okay. Speaking of MMM, somebody recommended me San Sheng Shi, a 50-minute long or something one-track album (you know, like Ladybird) because he thinks that anybody who likes the noise of MMM will probably like that too. I'm excited about hearing it :D
Seriously? Alright, I understand Oar, but 1/2 Gentlemen......you just HAVE to listen to it. "Jad Fair's Half Japanese were the most extreme case of noise-rock. They debuted with one of the most inept, clumsy, childish, lo-fi and indecipherable works of all times, the 50-song triple album 1/2 Gentlemen Not Beasts (1980), that both Dada and Captain Beefheart would be proud of". See?
re: Beefheart... for efficiency's sake I tend to gravitate towards the highest rated albums first instead of entire catalogs. Right now I have a ton of classical masterpieces to go through, as well as 100+ films on deck. Maybe I'll squeeze Doc in there sooner rather than later? (I have sampled a song or 2 and it was quite good) Just no guarantees...
re: San Sheng Shi... I'll be interested to hear if it's any good. Ladybird is amazing :)
re: Oar, 1/2 Gentlemen... sounds great :)
That's okay. Nobody's forcing you, after all :)
I've heard the beginning of Ladybird, BTW. I'll probably hear the whole album soon. San Sheng Shi....I checked and Scaruffi rates it a 7.5. So it's probably good. And since I like MMM, as I said.....
They're REALLY great. Check them out sometime.
Did you see Scaruffi's updated "Greatest Albums" list? It now has Diamanda Galas and Dream Theory in Malaya added too, and The River's rating has finally been changed to 8.5, and its ranking is now directly below Flying Teapot!
BTW, love how high you rank Kick Out the Jams, that album has moved into my top 5 albums of all time, such a fun record......
Cool, good to see those updates happening :) My guess is that a handful of the ones in his 25+ section are out of sequence, but it's hard to know for sure...
Yes, Kick Out the Jams is amazing - about as visceral as rock ever gets :)
Have you ever asked him about the sequence? And I think he should add all his 8.5 albums and some of the 8.0 ones to make a complete top 100.
Right ;D
I think so - years ago. The graphic version with liner notes has been the correct sequence for years. It seems unlikely that the current non-graphic one would still follow this precisely but then from 25+ on, at the exact point where all the additions have been made, "all hell suddenly breaks loose". Also, for years Scaruffi has alluded to Dream Theory in Malaya ranking near the top works of the century, yet here it supposedly barely makes the all time rock list. But again, it's hard to say - it could just be an update to the sequence and soon the previous ones will be changed and updated along with it.
Maybe I'll ask him soon regarding these latest updates, but for now my guess is that the latest additions were hastily cut and pasted without much regard for the exact placement and the order is still the same (or nearly so) as the long-standing graphic version with liner notes, but with The River now at the bottom below Flying Teapot. And I would also bet that Diamanda Galas and Dream Theory are both in the upper echelon, somewhere between The Good Son and Twin Infinitives. But of course, I could be wrong - only Scaruffi knows for sure...
I agree that it would be cool to see the exact order of the 8.5s and 8s through at least 100 selections :)
You have talked to him? Cool, I think I should do that too.
it may be like that. You're right, only Scaruffi knows for sure. Dream Theory would probably be higher, not sos sure about Diamanda Galas.....
Not "talked", just by email, maybe a total of 8 times over the last 7 years. He tends to have little time because he's so busy, so usually gives very short responses. I highly recommend stating your questions so that he only needs to give a "yes" or "no", otherwise he may either ignore your question or give an answer that is incomplete and leaves you hanging.
I emailed him and he said that the only album lists that are accurate right now are the decade lists. ... which have no precise order, so... there you go...
That's what I meant. I should have said "emailed" instead. Anyway, that was a kinda disappointing answer.....
Yea, I agree
BTW, is there any album that you think Scaruffi overrates? For me, it would be Hosianna Mantra. It's a great album, but #6 is just too high. And The Doors at #5 is also kinda confusing.
I don't find any he overrates very significantly... Underwater Moonlight, Down Colorful Hill... that Dubi Dam song... some others here and there - but I can see where he's coming from (except Dubi Dam) - and they're really good albums so I might agree with him one day
Yeah, he definitely overrates both of those. As you say, they are good albums though.
I never really got why Scaruffi liked Dubi Dam Dam. It's catchy, and I can see how he could call it a decent pop song and having it in the lower part of his 2005 playlist. #1, though, is absolutely insane.
What are some albums that you think he underrates?
Chinese Democracy, at least when I last listened to it (over a yr ago). Litanies of Satan, Branca's The Ascension and Newsom's Ys to a much lesser (insignificant) degree (when I last listened to them). Really though, his ratings are amazingly consistent.
His ratings are most consistent, but there's also the occasional rating that leaves you scratching your head, such as Doc at the Radar Station (6/10). I would have expected he would give it at least 7/10, and it's simply ridiculous. Another album he underrates is The White Album (again, 6/10).
What do you think of his Beatles page?
I agree with his Beatles ratings (for the most part, give or take +/- 0.5 here and there), but I don't agree with the spite aimed at them at various points on the page. I think it goes too far and at certain points uses generalities on things he should've been more specific about to add credence to what he was saying. My guess is that it stems at least partly from pent up hostility to Beatles fans who've no doubt written/emailed Scaruffi and was issued as a sort of general retaliation in addition to its biographical content (intentional or not).
As I said before, The White Album should be rated much higher than 6. And for Revolver, a 6 would be more fair than 5.
Agreed, I think he brings up some good points against them, but only exaggerates a great deal. You're right about the "generalities" especially. I think he let himself get too frustrated about the acclaim they got and that's why he went too far, trying to downgrade them at every point he got. The truth is, they may not been that innovative but they made some creative songs at the very least.
Agreed :) ...I think White Album is 6.5 (with Revolution 9 rather easily being their masterpiece - sorry hardcore Beatles fans!), and Revolver is either 5, or maybe Tomorrow Never Knows pushes it to 5.5 - been a long time since I listened to the whole album
6.5 is fair, but it is far better than any other Beatles album. And yes, Revolution 9 is certainly one of their best works. I find it funny that the Beatles were often praised for being creative and trying new things, but when they DID make a creative work, they were criticised for it.
I think Revolver has enough good songs to make it at least a 6: Tomorrow Never Knows (easily one of the best songs ever made by anybody), Eleanor Rigby, She Said She Said, And Your Bird Can Sing, and I'm Only Sleeping and Love You To aren't bad.
My favorite Beatles album is probably Abbey Rd, followed by Sgt Pepper, then White Album, then Magical Mystery Tour. Those 4 albums show the band adding more structural depth and ingenuity of composition to their songs, which I think suits them favorably over their earlier stuff.
Never got Abbey Road's appeal. Great album, sure, but they've done better, and in a far more interesting way. Same goes for Sgt. Pepper. Both have some of their best songs, but overall they sound disappointing. Don't take me that seriously, though, I label every Beatles album that isn't The White Album as a disappointment. Except for maybe MMM.
For me, ingenuity of composition didn't make them much better. And when they were carefree, one of the things they didn't care about was making good music.
For the moments when genius peeks through, though, they are one of my favorite bands.
Bulldozing thru rock 8's and 8.5's already on this list + new ones I haven't heard + previously rated 7.5's that have a shot at 8+ such as recently upgraded Tubular Bells and Da Capo, (and some movies and classical too). Likely to be lots of changes/additions coming, as there already have been...
The 7.8 - 8.2 range is far more accurately ranked now than it was before. There's sure to be more movement, but mainly what's left is to re-listen to more albums that are potential 8's (but currently rated 7.5ish) while also discovering many new ones I've never heard (probably 100 or so from Scaruffi's 8/10 list).
Also, I do need to run through the 8.3 - 8.7's which will probably lead to some changes, and possibly some upgrades to the 9/10+ list.
What are your favorite Stooges songs?
And have you listened to Ummagumma yet?
Last track on Fun House ... and there are a few on the self-titled debut, not sure their names/track #'s off the top of my head. When I listen to it again (soon), I'll note my favorites either here or my top 10 of the week list.
Don't think I've heard Ummagumma in its entirety yet
Alright. I think you'll like the opening songs of the self-titled the best. Have you listened to Raw Power?
Oh. It's really good, you'll like it a lot.
Thanks, pretty sure I've heard Raw Power or at least a number of songs from it.
I agree, the 1st track and 2nd track on the self-titled one are great. I really like all of them -- just haven't decided on my "favorites" yet. We'll see...
That's good then. You should relisten to it.
I was talking about the first five songs, No Fun and Real Cool Time are pretty good and We Will Fall is evil and weird and hilarious at the same time, the last one maybe unintentionally. The last three tracks are weaker.
Speaking of Ummagumma, do you like the track Corporal Clegg or whatever it's called?
Have you listened to the complete original LP of Double Nickels?
Yep, amazing :)
What do you think of the songs on it that aren't available on CD yet?
No NICKELBACK???
IKR!?!? OMG!!! HOW COULD I FORGET THEM!?!?!?
:-D